http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3743065.stm

" The threat of legal action has done little to deter European
internet users from downloading pirated music and films, according to
a research company. "

There are also a few articles with the same theme but from last year
about the USA , this one is about internet traffic in Europe.

It's the newest one I have seen.

But the common theme in all these types of articles is that they feel
that eventually internet ( pay ) downloading will win out , they feel
that most of you are stupid , and if they continue to treat you as if
you're stupid they will eventually get all your money.
You know they want to raise the price on that one dollar download ,
they're just waiting for the right moment.

And unfortunately a lot of you are in fact going to , or are already
supporting , the new Napster and also Itunes and the others that are
similar.

So maybe the "RIAA and similar trade terrorists" are right.

I don't think they are though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3743065.stm

I used to download from Kazaa and Napster, but I became convinced after a
while that it was wrong for me to do it because the artists worked hard to
make those works of art and they deserve to be paid for their work.
Especially if I have been blessed by it. For a long time, I tried to justify
my thievery byu telling myself that I had owned all of the downloaded tuens
legitimately at one time or another and I was just reclaiming what I had
alreayd paid for in another format.

But I had no peace of mind about it. I attribute that to the Spirit of God
dealing with my inner person. Even so, it wasnt an easy decision for me to
destroy those burned cds because I must have had 300 cds worth of burned
music. But I decided that it was better to do what God wanted me to do than
to hold on to something that really wasnt mine.

So to make a long story short, I trashed the 300 cds and now I download from
walmart.com or just rip my own cds to my Nomad.

I have a sizeable cd collection of my own and saw it as wrong for me to take
without paying when I could afford to pay for it.

Having said all of this, I am not telling anyone else what to do. This is my
personal journey of my own thoughts on file sharing. I know that there are
good people on both sides of the issue. But this is my story and I'm
sticking to it
Marc
"FunkyDevil" <qs8rzr001@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:31fff59e.0405251202.519808c7@posting.google.c om...

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In article <10b7al4nihqd3de@corp.supernews.com>
"Pastor Marc" </lihbuvyrfh8tyihunijmo> wrote:
Had you actually already paid for the songs in another format?

Do you actually believe that someone can own music?
Interesting...

You do of course realize they don't really want you to copy your
own CDs don't you?

I see... Would it have been more acceptable if you could *NOT*
afford to pay?

I am a musician. I have written and performed music in large
concert halls before audiences of tens of thousands. That said,
music is worthless until it is shared! The clenched fist can
receive nothing. It is the open hand that receives the gift. As
an artist the reason I perform is to move the audience and share
in their discovery of my art.

The real criminal is the music industry. I'll give you an
example. Consider Stevie Wonder's "Songs in the Key of Life."
That album could never have been produced today. Why? Because
each and every cut on that two album set was a gem and rose to
the top of the hit charts. Today, the music industry would have
tried to take each of those individual songs and put them on
sperate CDs. They would have rushed Stevie to quickly write some
substandard filler songs. This is what is known as ripping off
the consumer. However, what most people do not realize is, this
also rips off the artist. An artist lives for the perfection of
his art. You'd never demand a chef in a fine restaurant serve up
a raw dish just to move a crowd through and get their money.
However, the music industry routinely demands that artist serve
up work that is hastily prepared and not quite ready for public
consumption just so they can sell that one masterpiece. This is
why people are rebelling against the music industry. They're
tired of being fleeced every time they buy a CD.

The robbery does not end here! The music industry also rips off
it's own artists. The group "TLC" at one time was only getting
..05 per CD sell. They wrote much of their music and performed
their songs. They sacrificed refining their art. Did they reap
the profits? NO! Some fat cats who probably couldn't carry a
tune in a bucket were getting rich off their efforts. Toni
Braxton who can sing the phone book and make it sound like hot
buttered soul had to file for bankruptcy. Same story. She was
getting a pittance. If this were not the case, why would so many
artist support file sharing? The reason they support file
sharing is because they make most of their money selling tickets
to their concerts and tours. How do you promote these tours and
increase ticket sells? Well, getting your music out to as much
of the public as possible is one way.

You purport to be a religious man... Of course I'm curious as to
what you're doing here sullying your white robes by rubbing
shoulders with the sinners in this forum. What I find most
amazing is, you're in essence *defending* the real thieves and
robbers who are the music industry! These people are no
different than any other hacker who gains unauthorized access to
a computer system. Could you imagine me hacking into First
National Bank's credit card database to see if they were storing
any of my personal information? Do you actually believe that
would be a credible defense in court? "Your honor, I was merely
trying to make sure they didn't have my personal information in
their file system." The RIAA has even proposed releasing viruses
on to the Internet. I'm wondering why the US Dept. of Homeland
Security hasn't arrested them all on conspiracy charges.

As a religious man, I'm sure you're familiar with the passage
found in Galatians chapter 6 verse 7? If not, I'll quote it here
for you. "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a
man soweth, that shall he also reap." The music industry is
reaping what they have sown. And one cannot go against the will
of God.

- --
"Quoth The RaVeN Never More."

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"RaVeN" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:20040526025454.11702.qmail@nym.alias.net...

Not to mention the $50 million New York State recently forced the
recording industry to pay artists like Dolly Parton, David Bowie and Liza
Minneli, who they claimed they weren't able to locate. Well said Raven.
About all you left out is the way I feel about paying artists like: Elvis,
Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Jim Croce, Benny Goodman,
Leadbelly, Robert Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Cab Calloway, Glenn Miller,
Billie Holiday, Buddy Holly, John Lennon, George Harrison, Steve Goodman,
Jerry Garcia, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams--to name just a few--when they're
no longer here to collect the money.

Here's an interesting article about how some musicians are profiting from
file sharing:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/n...ing-main_x.htm
Lots more good stuff here:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/music-index.htm

TB

"Pastor Marc" </lihbuvyrfh8tyihunijmo> wrote in message news:<10b7al4nihqd3de@corp.supernews.com>...
I used to listen to music on the radio, but I became convinced after a
while that it was wrong for me to do it, because the artists worked so
hard to make those works of art, and they deserve to be paid for their
work.

I used to look at paintings in museums, but then I became convinced
after a while that it was wrong for me to do so... after all the
artists put alot of work into those paintings, how dear I look without
paying?

I used to watch Mtv videos, but then...

Do you see my point here?

"Pastor Marc" </lihbuvyrfh8tyihunijmo> wrote in message
news:10b7al4nihqd3de@corp.supernews.com...

The problem is a very few get paid a hell of a lot for what they do. Thoes
equally good musisians that did happen to get noticed and record contracts
get nothing.



When this God of yours tells me to dump my MP3's etc. I will.


It amazes me how Marc was willing to ignore something that can be shown to
exist THE LAW

Then takes notice of a God that exists only in his imagination.

It doesn't say much for the intelligence of mankind does it?

"John Vogel" <jvogel2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c317e960.0405260953.38ba3acf@posting.google.c om...
The broadcast companies that put music on the airwaves pay the copyright
fees to do so. When you copy a cd from someone else, no one gets paid.
Imagine this on a global scale.

Same thing with the videos. MTV pays the licensing fee.

I don't know about the paintings, though. Many of those are voluntarily
donated.

File sharing is a fantastic technology. But the artists and those who help
them ought to be compensated. Whether we're talking about an established
artist or an group that is struggling to make a career of it in the music
industry.

"A.W." <keepthepound-no-spam@email.labour.org.uk> wrote in message
news:40b4f235$0$25329$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
That wasn't a very nice post. The point is that artists and those who help
them deserve compensation. Maybe we need a paradigm shift of some kind. But
people should be paid for their work.

Opinion piece:

There's confusion and defensiveness on both sides of the aisle
in this issue.

Either side will grab at any straw that seems to support its
cause.

I believe that, in most p2p download cases, the music artist no
longer holds the copyright - having been contractually forced to
give it over (along with their next twelve generations of
newborn) to the studio that signed them. So, they were paid for
their work to the amount they were willing to negotiate. The
potential loser is the studio or RIAA, as they hold or represent
the copyright.

As sales slump in a poor economy, it's natural for CEOs and CFOs
and CAOs to distance themselves from any fault, so there is a
certain amount of scapegoating involved as well.

When it comes to negotiating the next work of an artist or
group, rest assured that a high incidence of p2p downloading is
added to a high incidence of prior physical disc sales to
determine the potential market - which actuarial statistic
determines the price of the next contract!

On another hand, p2pers wanting not to be guilty - tho we are in
fact - take the position that THEY are raping artists or THEY
charge too much or THEY simply produce shit and somehow don't
deserve what we used to pay them, now that we can in fact steal
it - so we are somehow entitled?

It's not really important whether I agree with the law or not,
it is the law and until it is changed I'm a criminal if I give
copies of my CDs or DVDs or ebooks or TV programs or classical
vinyls to others - at least in the US. In some cases, Canada
prominently, it's a bit muddled, as recent decisions being
interpreted by the press and the p2p populace may not be
properly interpreted - some surprises here, I'd venture?

We are participants in a problem that really does need to be
solved, for it will shape the future of e-life and art as we
know it now. I live in a land where many governments for many
years have allowed me and my fellows to kill ourselves with
cigarettes and alcohol - costing countless thousands of billions
of dollars in health support not to mention thousands and
thousands of lives. Why? Because the lobby dollar is more
powerful than the vote of a citizen - or a doctor. To assuage
our slowly awakening sensibilities, we've seen signs posted on
the sides of cigarette packages and other signs posted in bars
and liquor stores (thank god I'm not pregnant!) but government
hasn't the balls to outlaw these vices as they have other habit
forming substances.

Well, I don't know about you but I'm habituated to p2p. I just
checked the sides of my monitor and tower and keyboard and found
no warning!! Where is the CAUTION, THE DOWNLOADING OF
COPYRIGHTED FILES HAS BEEN FOUND TO BE ADDICTIVE AND DANGEROUS
TO YOUR MENTAL HEALTH - CAUSING EXTREME LACK OF CONFORMITY WITH
GOVERNMENT DICTATED NORMS.

BJ ;-0)

Starting to Smell a Media TROLL here folks....

"Pastor Marc" <vghdzstrfhsrtfjsyt> wrote in message
news:10babrnchs92pa3@corp.supernews.com...

"Pastor Marc" <vghdzstrfhsrtfjsyt> wrote in message
news:10bac0loecf3494@corp.supernews.com...
is more corrupt than the politicians that legislated their message..

Bloody Troll...

On Wed, 26 May 2004 06:20 am, "Pastor Marc" </lihbuvyrfh8tyihunijmo> []
said:

You're one of those people who twist any and every discussion to involve
'god'?

--
/Jeßus/

"I'm apathetic and I don't care."

I'm not a media troll, though that's quite flattering. Can't a guy give his
opinion on a posted topic without being labeled and pigeonholed just because
he has the audacity to believe in and speak of a higher power? With all the
stupid claptrap that gets discussed in newsgroups, maybe a little higher
thinking isn't such a bad idea. But I digress, and let's move on to
something else.
"-=ô;ö-=-" <SomeWhere.On@Planet.Bush.org> wrote in message
news:nhdtc.16018$o97.3572@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

FunkyDevil come on down:

I'm not stupid, and they won't ever get all my money. They come up with a
good music listening plan with a vast library at a flat rate, however, and I'm
there. Offer a music on demand service with access to a large number of
independent labels and a cable-like pricing plan, and I'm in on it.

I was figuring the price would be lowered, myself.

It's terrorism to try and make money off something you own? Gee, and I
thought that was capitalism.

Uh, this is not the theological debating society here..but your
"confessions" ring of "troll-dom"....we have read such past confessions of
"repentant" file sharers of such magnitude, yours is just a re-hash with
added vigor of biblical proportions tossed in..

For example now you brought it into the mix, your hymnal has several
copyrighted songs(most all actually) and I pose this to you now, do you pay
a public performance royalty every service when such a work is sung??? No,
you don't...But under the laws of quite a few countries you should, even
though such "performances" are over looked as they are not for profit and
defined under fair use standards, same can be said for mp3 files as long as
you do not further deseminate them any further than your immediate
surroundings(i.e your home, auto, etc) as fair use...Have you actually
listened to radio of the last few years?? I bet not, all play the same
crappy industry force feed that the industry wants to pass off as art.. If
it was not for p2p, we of the world would never hear such that was not
forced upon us by the industry in thier ever increasing feeding frenzy for
the cash...

another thing you may wish to take a trip out on the net for a few
searchings of tons of freely sharable and consumable mp3's that will never
see a store shelf in CD form(you may order em though, not under threat of
law suit to pay for them unless you feel you must)..I support only
independent artists not allied with the RIAA, I buy their stuff I like and
freely share as I am allowed to. How many old vinyle goodies do you have in
a closet and no CD is available(or ever will be by the industry, since there
may not be a fan base in excess of millions to demand such) and when you can
no longer find a working turntable to play them on, and you would like to
preserve them for the future, hmmmmmmmmm??? Big delimma, eh?? Oh My, guess
what.....there are archived copies in p2p(or you could do such and maybe
share them back to others)..there is quite a lot of old music that will
disappear(even from the libraries that have them) due to no CD replacement
media or the next generation hardware will not be able to recover such
treasures....You may find it in printed archive, but nothing brings life to
it other than an original recording or copy of such..

"-=ô;ö-=-" <SomeWhere.On@Planet.Bush.org> wrote in message
news:Zuptc.7976$nJ6.1702@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
In houses of worship, you need two licenses:
1. A CCLI license for printed and projected music that is not public domain.
(about 160 US dollars a year).
2. A BMI license for the performing of special and choral music outside of
the main worship service (youth group meetings, father son banquets, etc).
About 50 dollars a year.

You do not need to pay a license simply to perform music in a 'regular
worship service.' But you do need to pay a license if you pass out copies of
the lyrics or make sheet copies for your choir members, or cassette or cd
copies.

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In article <10bbs46ifj8std5@corp.supernews.com>
"Pastor Marc" <vghdzstrfhsrtfjsyt> wrote:
Hmmm... Suddenly I get this picture of my being in a casino in
Las Vegas, when suddenly you come in, leap onto the craps table
and begin to deliver a fire and brimstone sermon on how you were
delivered from the evils of gambling... No doubt I'd be happy
for you. However, I would also applaud security for insisting
that you change your venue.

- --
"Quoth The RaVeN Never More."

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Fair enough Rev..have a read of this article posted a few lines up and give
us your thoughts...

http://music.tinfoil.net/modules.php...rticle&sid=796


"Pastor Marc" <vghdzstrfhsrtfjsyt> wrote in message
news:10bca9jnnuqau34@corp.supernews.com...

RaVeN come on down:

For a place that claims not to like sermons, there sure is a lot of preaching
to the choir.

It's interesting. The last 5 or 6 paragraphs were a bit over the top. But I
share his feelings about the RIAA. They are selfish. Greedy. And they treat
their customers like potential criminals. And most of the mainstream pop
music coming out now isn't very good. And it stinks that there are so many
good albums that have fallen out of print, and that the copyright owners for
whatever reason won't release them.

As far as whether or not sampling copyrighted music from p2p is ok, as long
as it's ok with the copyright owner, then I'm ok with it. I must admit that
I have not always been consistent on this point. I have borrowed and have
received copies of media from people through the years. I guess I don't
always practice what I preach.


"-=ô;ö-=-" <SomeWhere.On@Planet.Bush.org> wrote in message
news:npztc.6159$XN2.978@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...