The DVD+ camp are also doing. Its being demo'd at Ceatec* in Japan this
month. The article says Philips have been working on it for two years.

http://www.dvdrw.com/press/duallayer.htm

"Big Man" <BigMan@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:mSifb.541924$Ji7.5878670@news.easynews.com...
Of course, with dual layer actually being a whole new format, wouldn't it
have been good if Pioneer, Philips and Sony could have pooled their
resources and patents, and given us just one new dual-layer format.

I fear another whole new war is brewing, more outlandish marketing claims
and propaganda, more arguments over lossless linking and write speeds etc
etc.

Still by the time it is out in the shops and cheap enough to warrant buying,
lets hope we can skip it completely and go straight for blu-ray :-)

Regards

Philip

I would never have guessed that this problem could be solved so rapidly.

Although demos are taking place, there is absolutely no info. about
commercially available drives, media, and projected delivery dates and
prices that I could find. If this takes years, blu ray will be upon us.

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:20:40 +0100, "Philip" <philip@nospam.com> wrote:

There was a article about dual-layered discs developed by Sony.
Sony said that his technology is not coste effective. Now Philips
comes with their technology.

The next war will be between Blu-ray and Blu discs.

I would imagine that the silver alloys they are using are not cheap.

Another concern I have is reliability....after all of the work/man years
into DVD-R, the newsgroups fully document of the lack of consistent
reliability across hardware of this medium. To believe that dual layer will
do anything but increase problems big time is folly.



"masbango" <masbangocuracao@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f7de028.7706996@newsreader.euronet.nl...

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:20:40 +0100, Philip wrote:

I don't know. Despite some hassles at the beginning, in the long run,
the competition could lead to a better standard.
--
"Good...bad...I'm the guy with the gun."

Now playing: the radio

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 11:03:40 +0100, guv <guv69@msn.com> wrote:

Most things are like that these days. MS software is ridden with bugs
where the bloody program closes without warning and then comes up with
that message do you want to send it to MS.

Nero 6 is full of bugs. Will wait till version 6.6.10.40 before trying
it again

Nero 5.5.10.50 very stable.

MS patches all seem to make the pc more unstable.

Pioneer are about the only ones making a dvd burner that burn to most
brands where all the rest are trying to play catch up. They are all
trying to out do each other and no care is taken to make sure the
product works.

CAM <CAM@nospam.com> wrote in
news:3b9tnv8u2ksf4dn17l69e5gm92k10tkokr@4ax.com:

<snip>

Works fine for me The 6...0.15 release would not burn -RW on my 4040B,
the 0.19 "service pack" from the other day seems to have fixed that, so
it's working spiffingly now.

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

guv <guv69@msn.com> wrote in
news:32gtnvgul0addg9a559rvu7uihhpk3ho4l@4ax.com:

<snip>

RNM does not support my burner... It used to be my burning software of
choice...

As to checking on "lots of players".. well no, I tested them on MY players
and they worked and that's all that concerns me

Nero is the buggeist bit of code aside from Windows OS's I have ever come
across.... I have never used it in the past but relented this time as it
was one of the few that supported my burner with 4x -R, my other fave bit
of burning software, Instant CD/DVD only did 2x using the 4020 profile,
which is to be expected (I have the LG 4040)


--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

I find this a bit of an odd statement: "Let's hope we can skip it
completely". I personally think that dual-layer recording (and
copying!) is what an awfull lot of people are waiting for. Think of
it: A nearly 100% increase in storage capacity compared to current DVD
recorders, while still remaining to be compatible with 100s of
millions of playback devices that exist today.

Blu-ray is intented for HDTV recording only. If all you want is record
long times of SD television, then why wait for BD, if DVD recording
(especially dual layer!) is (almost) here now? Even after the first BD
products are introduced (which will take some time for the US, and
even longer for Europe), then DVD will not go away. I think most will
agree with that: DVD is far too popular and well established now for
most hardware, media and software companies to drop it anytime soon.
Recordable DVD, and any progress made in this field, is therefore very
welcome to many, many people.

I do agree with Philip however on co-operation between "plus" and
"minus" on developing a single standard for dual layer. Since we have
to buy new equipment and media to use it, a "merger" could have been
possible. However, due to Pioneer taking the "dual format" road,
chances are very likely that in the end they will also incorporate the
DVD+R9 in their products (especially since that format is nearly
finished, demonstrated, ready for licensing even this year with the
first products to be launched in a few months time).

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 10:52:09 GMT, CAM wrote:

If a non-MS program crashes, it's automatically the fault of MS?
--
"The other night I came home late, and tried to unlock my house with my
car keys. I started the house up. So, I drove it around for a while.
I was speeding, and a cop pulled me over. He asked where I lived. I
said, 'right here, officer.' Later, I parked it on the freeway, got
out, and yelled at all the cars, 'Get out of my driveway!'"
- Steven Wright

Now playing: "Utopia - Anthology (1974-1985) - 04 - Set Me Free"

"guv" <guv69@msn.com> wrote in message
news0utnvot2dim1lvg76l5sfosok6ovvbphb@4ax.com...
Agreed, dual-layer +R and DVD-R will be less compatible than now. It will
be harder to manufacturer and more prone to damage. It must have more
sensitive dye for the second layer which in turn means a dye with a greater
probability of aging due to light, heat, and air reaching it. This problem
is compounded by the fact this second layer is harder to read by a DVD
Player in first place.

Or a hard-drive is only for data and not video!

I agree strange idea, it is incredible that some people still believe that
one or the other format will be completely usurped by the other. This might
have been a point to argue about 12-18 months ago, but is less and less
likely now.

He forgets also that Philips R&D was actually 3 years behind! The guy is an
idiot and a liar, for example he is still telling people that DVD-RW can not
use the +VR format for quick editing on a PC, when he knows very well it
works no differently than +RW (I've been doing what he says is impossible
for months now!). That sort of person isn't worth replying to, I certainly
do not bother any more.

Regards

Philip

"Philip" <philip@nospam.com> wrote:

Well, I guess this is where civilized discussion on a very interesting
subject ends. Again.

Mh, must be a new policy then. It's a shame that I haven't updated my
PHILes recently:
http://www.dvdplusrw.org/PHILes.html

"guv" <guv69@msn.com> wrote in message
news:hvounv48gijactnbnntn5tnb6i71jrrhlj@4ax.com...
Laugh, I am quite flattered, it sums up my thoughts very well about the
biased nature of dvdplusrw, about the information there that is wholly
incorrect. Of course a lot of my posts are out of context, but hey, why
would I expect different of him. Only a biased promotional site would trawl
the Internet and take my posts, deliberately out of context and publish that
information without my consent or permission. Sort of proves my point.
Maybe I will get an Editors Award for it ;-)

Of course it reflects nothing of other posts I have made that have had no
reference to dvdplusrw, unlike Jorg I have been in this newsgroup for a
while getting involved in all sorts of discussions and being helped and
helping others on various aspects of DVD recording. If you were to do a
search on Jorg's posts here you will soon see the only discussions he gets
involved with are me, while he conveniently ignores those asking for help
regarding the +RW format he promotes.

Regards

Philip (as featured at http://www.dvdplusrw.org/PHILes.html)

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:11:45 GMT, Tarkus <karnevil9@beer.com> wrote:

I did not say it was MS fault I just said most things have bugs in
them.
Nero 6 is buggy as hell. Nero 5.5 is stable.
Winxp is unstable which has nothing to do with nero 5.5 an dit been
stable.

Leanr to read.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:47:58 +0100, guv <guv69@msn.com> wrote:

Blu ray will do 5 hours of HDTV quality or 13 hours of VHS quality.
All depends what you want.

Blu ray won't be affordable for another 2 years by which time
something else maybe out which is better. To hard to predict.

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 18:29:41 +0100, "Philip" <philip@nospam.com> wrote:

Can you explain how and which program you are using?
Do you mean the +VR format on DVD-RW media using on-disc editing?
I think that you can copy the +VR format data from a DVD+RW disc to a
Harddisc and edit it on the Harddisc. Then copy it back to a DVD-RW.

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:04:35 GMT, CAM wrote:

Leanr to write.
--
"The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind
you from the truth."

Now playing: the radio

"masbango" <masbangocuracao@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f80472a.1518689@newsreader.euronet.nl...
Hi

Just take a DVD-RW disc, and using say Uleads DVD MovieFactory make a
FastEditable disc (final step). This formats either a +RW or DVD-RW using
the +VR format. (Other software that supports +VR will also work, i.e
NeoDVD) You can then edit directly on the disc later to add more video,
chapter points or menus without having to copy back to the hard drive.

You can get a free trial download of MovieFactory to try out if you like.

Regards

Philip