So the Pioneer A06 single layer 4x DVD+/-R burner will have a firmware
upgrade to allow it to burn dual layer DVDs soon. Do you think other
manufactuers will be able to offer a similar firmware? Or is Pioneer a
pioneer (pardon the pun) in this area, have they already built the
"blue laser" technology into their existing single layer drives, just
waiting for the standard to finalize?

With a price tag of less than $150, the Pionner A06 seems to be the
burner the buy right now.

"JDeats" <jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:b0738dc6.0401181309.7ad666c4@posting.google.c om...
Pioneer have not said they will offer firmware upgrades to dual-layer, and
likely will not.

All that happened was at a trade show they demonstrated dual-layer burning
using an A06 with modified firmware, that only tells us it is possible, and
not that it will be done for all existing owners.

Blue laser can not be built into existing drives as that requires a very
expensive "blue laser", pointless when the drive isn't a blueray drive.

Regards

Philip

"Philip" <philip@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<nPCOb.25738$qx2.2860701@stones.force9.net>.. .



Philip,

That doesn't really make a lot of sense. If dual layer burning
requires a blue laser then how did they make the Pioneer A06 perform a
dual layer burn with only a firmware upgrade for the demo?

Use deductive reasoning to explore this a bit. If it is possible, but
not likely to be released (refering to the firmware upgrade) why would
they go to CES and demo their existing Pioneer A06 ($199 retail/$150
street) burining to dual layer using only a firmware upgrade if they
had no plans to release this? Think about it, what possible next move
could Pioneer have? How can they release an expensive "dual layer"
blue laser DVD burner when they've just told the world it can be done
using a A06. Why would they demo this and then say "oh they was just
for a demo, we have no intention of releasing that firmware, we just
thought we'd show it off for the hell of it".

The only possible move they can make is to eventually release this
firmware (most likely sooner than later), the only other option they
have to put out a press release explaining why the had the demo and
then decided not to release it as a public firmware upgrade (which
would be extreemly negitive PR for Pioneer) that would only happen if
they discovered some serious negitive side-effect (e.g. damage to the
drive) caused by burning dual layer with an A06, but again if that is
their reasoning for not releasing the firmware then it shows
incompitence on their part for making this information public in the
first place.

Just my .02
-Jeremy

Well I have read a few posts in various forums placed by people with a
belief that it will only be a matter of time before Pioneer will release
such firmware for both the 106 and 107. This is, they claim, influencing
their choice to buy a Pioneer over any other make.
They believe, maybe mistakenly, that they are adding longevity and future
proofing their options a little.
If what Pioneer demonstrated would influence others in their purchasing
choice, whilst informing people at the same time not to count on such an
option ever making it to the market, then good luck to Pioneer.
I saw all the photo's from the demonstration and read the story and whilst I
thought it was an interesting read I then went out and bought a NEC 2500
which works very well at what it does. By the time that dual burners and
discs have become affordable I can imagine that 16x or greater burners will
be the std for that type of usage.

Morgan

"JDeats" <jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:b0738dc6.0401181820.28c746a3@posting.google.c om...
Who says that dual-layer burning requires a blue laser? It doesn't!
Dual-layer burning on DVD has nothing whatsoever to do with blue lasers.

It is simply using the hardware they have available. There is an R&D cost
for developing this firmware and the specifications for dual-layer burning,
are they going to give it away for free in firmware upgrades? Or will they
use it as a way of driving new model says that include a small premium for
being dual-layer writers? No one knows, least of all you :-)

(There you go again, talking about blue lasers, this has nothing to do with
blue lasers.)

Think about it, they do not have to release an expensive dual layer burner,
just another new model at or around the same price. There is a big
difference for them in selling a new burner opposed to giving away firmware
for free which means people do not have to buy the new model.

They can say what they like. This was just some guy demonstrating the unit
at a trade show, who suggested to the press that it was using an A06 with
only modified firmware. Maybe he had that wrong, the hardware might have
been modified? The other thing to think about is the laser power, maybe it
was just a bog standard A06 with new firmware, but what if that firmware was
over driving the laser to produce enough power and was only good for 100
burns or so before it burnt out? Perfectly good for an exhibition, but not
something you could ever release to customers.

Pioneer have said "zero" on this subject officially. You will have to wait
and see, but nothing is certain, and I say unlikely. The best scenario is
the firmware upgrade will be free (or small charge) on the current shipping
model, and that now means the A07, which is more likely due to its increased
laser output that enables x8 speed burning.

Regards

Philip

You understand more about this than I do. I thought "blue laser" and
dual layer always went hand in hand (the blue laser made the dual
layer burn possible), guess I was wrong. So what benefit is there to
blue laser technology then? Just curious.

About the rest of your comments, you did hit on a few good points. The
best one is regarding the Pioneer demonstrator who might have just let
it slip that "this is a modified Pioneer A06 with only a firmware
upgrade", that is possible (tech geeks love to say things they
shouldn't), if this person was blabing about something he shouldn't
hopefully this cost him/her their job. But I'm betting it wasn't, most
companies are very selective about who they send to trade shows to
demonstrate product, and most of the time what they have to say is
very carefully worded to present a message. Given my general
experience with trade shows and presentations I'm going to bet against
you on this, no I don't know for sure, but I think it will happen. The
firmware upgrade will be made public at some point and will be free
(has anyone ever charged for a firmware upgrade?).

Given what you've said about blue lasers having nothing to do with
dual layer burning, I'm wondering if other vendors won't be able to
produce firmware to support dual layer burning for their drives, what
makes the Pioneer A06 special?


"Philip" <philip@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<a0UOb.25866$qx2.2883907@stones.force9.net>.. .

On 18 Jan 2004 18:20:15 -0800, jeremy@pdq.net (JDeats) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Your "deductive reasoning" is based on a very rose-coloured view of
the world. So that a lot of suckers buy a Pioneer AO6 who would not
have before? That's my first and most obvious "deduction".

And if you don't think that's possible. get thee to Creative Labs and
talk to them about firmware and drivers and updates and new hardware.


************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I was frightened by the idea of a conspiracy that was
causing it all.
But then I was terrified that maybe there was no plan,
really. Is this unpleasant mess all a mistake?

Old Nick <nsnfwhite@iinet.net.au> wrote in message news:<j8no001b0t2j1qmra3l7i41logo6prvr1e@4ax.com>. ..
So, you think Pioneer would go to CES and perform this demo just to
create some positive PR and help sell a few A06 drives right now. I
guess the question then becomes; is Pionner that desperate to sell A06
drives?. Last I checked this drive was getting postive reviews and
fairing pretty well on its own merit before this info came out. Also,
at some point in the future when Pioneer markets their first dual
layer burning drive, if the A06 firmware upgrade has not been
released, it's going to make them look very bad. You think they would
go there, I don't think they are that stupid (or poorly managed), I'll
give Pioneer more respect than that as they have proven to be a
quality brand name over the years. I could be wrong, but not likely.

So, here's another question. If Pioneer has no plans to make this
firmware upgrade available why are they listing "single and dual
layer" support for DVD Video in the specs of this drive right now?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...etailComponent

"JDeats" <jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:b0738dc6.0401200824.67d1667d@posting.google.c om...

Hi

For goodness sake, that is read support they are quoting, not write support.
Dual-layer discs can be read by any DVD-ROM drive in the world, this is part
of the standard spec! You seem easily confused by this technology so I
wonder what makes you think you can be so certain about upgradeability of
Pioneers A06 just through firmware, and that this will offered for free?

Your other points:

Yes Benq are at this point in time charging for firmware to enable
DVD-RW/DVD-R burning to what was a solo writer drive.
http://paydual.benq.com.tw/

Blue lasers (well blue-violet) are the next generation of recordable discs
storing around 20Gbyte plus per disc, and no, current DVD writers will not
be flash upgradeable! ;-)

It is up to the manufacturers and if it is possible to add DVD dual-layer
burning, they will likely have to pay a fee to Pioneer/DVD Forum to license
the technology, so may not offer it for free or at all on existing models.

Hardly, Pioneer are already the number one seller of DVD Writers and
manufacturing capacity is running to the max and still not making enough
drives to meet demand. Besides your so called positive PR isn't positive is
it, short time it may boost sales but medium term when they do not deliver
will hit sales and reputation, and could find them facing a class action
lawsuit to provide what they said they would! In addition the A06 is
replaced by the A07, if anything it would be the A07 they would want to
promote now, not an old model.

You will just have to wait and see, but nothing is as certain as you are
wanting to believe it is.

Regards

Philip

In article <b0738dc6.0401200824.67d1667d@posting.google.com>, jeremy@pdq.net (JDeats) wrote:
capability to "burn" dual layer. I hope it is true that maybe a firmware
update will be made that enables dual layer on my A06 but i wont be broken
hearted if it doesnt. The burners are so cheap nowadays that in a short while
, they will go as cheap as cdrw drives can be had for now and i will just buy
a new drive..

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:28:07 -0000, "Philip" <philip@nospam.com>
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:


hehe. Thank you!

************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I was frightened by the idea of a conspiracy that was
causing it all.
But then I was terrified that maybe there was no plan,
really. Is this unpleasant mess all a mistake?