I'm looking to buy a DVD recorder soon, but I need to find out more about
them. Can anyone recommend a web site where I can find out more about them.
Basically I want to know what are the advantages of HDD models. Ideally I
would like to be able to record a TV program with one touch of a button
without first making sure there is a blank disk in the machine. With a HDD
model would it go straight to a blank part of the Hard Disk? Sorry if this
is basic stuff but I am not at all familiar with these systems.
Thanks in advance, Ed

CHECK OUT this forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php some great
information and good search capabilities.
I'm looking very hard at this one: Panasonic DMR-EH50S
HTH ... Bob R.

"Ed Rear" <noreplyxx@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:_Sftf.27346$zt1.9902@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...

"Bob R." <rericketts3spam@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:JVgtf.688063$xm3.577964@attbi_s21...
confused! I think I'll buy a DVD magazine and try and educate myself with
that before taking the plunge. At least it appears it's worth paying out the
extra for a model with Hard Drive, and Panasonic seem to be the most
favourite brand. Thanks again for your prompt reply. Ed

Bob R. wrote:

no offence intended at all but I have used both and think you'd be mad not
to take up the huge advantages of HDD recording

I recorded 10 hours of This Old House last night while sleeping. I fed the
HDD on my Panasonic with VHS and in 12 minutes had edited out the ads and
split the episodes - they are now ready for burning onto disc.

impossible to do that with a disc-only recorder. In fact impossible to edit
a disc only without comparatively huge additional hassles

just my opinion

Steve


"Ed Rear" <deletetohereed.rear@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:LVwtf.3591$yu.183@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...

A dvd recorder is basically worthless if it doesn't have a harddrive. Take
note of reply from 'mindesign', he's right. My unit is a pioneer dvdr 520H
with an 80 gig HD. You can get recorders with bigger Harddrives but really,
80gig is more than you'll probably ever need.
I'm sure mindesign would agree that your MOST important consideration would
be editing features. Look at the different models/brands available and take
home the speel sheets and read them. I can't stress enough that the editing
features are later going to concern you the most. As for my pioneer, I
haven't had a problem personally, I got the region free code from the store
I bought it from and typed it in and all's well.

Mickey



"Ed Rear" <noreplyxx@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:_Sftf.27346$zt1.9902@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...

"Mickey Mouse" <MickeyMouse@DisneyLand.com> wrote in message
news:43d9afc5$0$9370$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
I use a DVD Recorder without a hard drive, because there
is no way the editing features of one could approach what I
can do on my PC, not even with the biggest HD around. In
fact I only use DVD+RW disks on the DVD Recorder and
bring those to my computer.

Luck;
Ken

"Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:X_OdnatTRq7C8kfeRVn-tA@giganews.com...
editing features of any dvd recorder. However, the question the poster
asked was whether to buy a recorder with or without a HD. The logical
answer would and must be WITH. I pointed out however the most important
consideration with a dvd recorder is it's editing features and HD capacity
second. Not withstanding make and model, reliability and service.
My pioneer has served me well and the only problem is that sometimes when
creating menus for my movies, which are sometimes obscured by yes and no
dialogue boxes. It would be good if I could move dialogue boxes around the
screen perhaps with the arrow keys so that I could be sure I'm happy with
the menu I create.


Mickey

"Mickey Mouse" <MickeyMouse@DisneyLand.com> wrote in message
news:43dab40e$0$9138$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
You have presented no information, or reasoning to support
the need for a hard drive. There may be some value to having
a hard drive, say if you wanted to store up small clips until you
had enough for a DVD, for example. But you only mentioned
Editing as a reason to spend the extra cash for one with a hard
drive. You certainly present nothing to support : "The logical
answer would and must be WITH."

In my case, for instance, I use a DirecTiVo to collect up and
hold material that I capture (using a PCI capture card). I use
the DVD Recorder for converting VHS Tape to DVD and to
process the VHS signal. The DVD Recorder has a built-in
TBC and Component outputs for my HD Projector. Neither of
these functions require that there be a hard drive in my DVD
Recorder, nor would such use benefit from one.

Luck;
Ken

"Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:28-dnamMyvzzIUfeRVn-oA@giganews.com...
state the obvious, but obviously you want me to be, obviously!
Well, for one thing my recorder with an 80gig HD allows me to record
up to 102 hours of video. My reasoning is (obviously) that I can
record 102 episodes of friends, edit out the commercials and then record
some more. (obviously). Or 6120 mins of video which to my reasoning
obviously equates to 68, 90min movies. Or 34, 3hour movies. But that's
obviously, reasonably speaking. Now when I'm ready I can copy all of
these things to dvd, 6hours at a time. Obviously, with high speed recording
it won't take 6hours to fill a dvd disk. I could go on but I think I've
been obvious enough. So, obviously I'm being reasonable when I say a
DVD recorder without a HD is more or less obviously and reasonably
USELESS!

Luck to you too.

Mickey
DirecTiVo
P.s I don't think we have that DirecTiVo thingy here on OZ. And as for VHS,
WELL, SAME AS ABOVE.

Ken

think you answered your own challenge without realising

transferring VHS to DVD, without using a HDD would be a pain in the arse -
this of course assumes one has recorded numerous shows onto VHS and wishes
to edit out Ads, unwanted shows and many of the bullshit intro's and outro's
shows can contain.

You have a bunch of devices that assist in your needs - from memory, the OP
asked - should he buy a DVD recorder with a HDD or not...... he is not a
skilled user of the product and has a specific need - ideally to be able to
record a program without any hassles at all. Frankly, he may not need a DVD
recorder, rather only a HDD recorder. Isn't a TiVo a HDD recorder?

As mentioned previously to further posts, I use the HDD all the time to
record shows then edit the ads and other crap from them. it is simple and
fast and produces acceptable results. For me, flexibility is the key, along
with simplicity of use - a single unit that enables me to receive a broad
range of inputs and record them without any problem at all, then
edit/dump/copy to disc, is the clear winner - no coasters, no ads, no
hassles. Lovely.

Now all I need is one with a HD tuner and it will be wonderful

Mickey Mouse wrote:

You have articulated some excellent reasons why *you* require a recorder
with HDD, but, nfortunately, nothing you have written makes a HDD
fitted recorder necessary for my requirements, so in that respect, I
have to agree with Ken.

In the case of the OP however, he quite clearly stated "Ideally I
would like to be able to record a TV program with one touch of a button
without first making sure there is a blank disk in the machine." This
would indicate that a recorder with HDD is his best bet.

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:43:05 +1100, "mindesign"
<seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote:

I have a similar set-up with the HDD included in the digital DVB
receiver (normally called "PVR). There is a major benefit of those
compared to what is normally called HDD recorder and also compared to
DVD/HDD-recorders.
That is that the recording is performed by storing the source digital
video stream, which gives the following features:

1) When just "time-shifting" (delete after watching) you get the full
transmitted quality without any decoding/resampling/encoding.

2) When saving to DVD, the decoding/resampling/encoding is done once
when you know what quality to use to fit a DVD.

3) The storage space on the HDD is more effectively used (assuming you
want high picture quality) because it only takes up what is
transmitted.

4) The DVB-PVR (should) automatically solve the issues of programming
the timers for recording and the best versions also stores the
information from the Electronic Program Guide with the recording, so
that can be retrieved from the list of recordings. I think such
functionality is available in certain areas with 3-party "TV-GUIDE"
services. This is not available where I live so this functionality
only creates trouble.

So, I think the answers about the need for HDD in the DVD recorder
boils down to:

You would want a HDD somewhere in your set-up!
It is better to have it where the input signal is digital (a
"DVB-PVR").
If that is not an option, go for the HDD/DVD-recorder.

In combination with a digital receiver (PVR) you can do with a DVD+RW
recorder without HDD.
In this case you will want to use +RW discs instead of +R or -R
because these can be played (on most) DVD-players as edited with
inserted chapter marks (where you want them). Also, if the scenario is
to just transfer to PC they can be read directly without "finalizing"
or "Make Compatible" processing.

There are differences between the models. Editing has been mentioned.
I would add
* Editing functionality when creating DVD-Video standard discs (to be
played on DVD-Players).
* Timer programming.
* Potential control of an external DVB-receiver
or Potential to be controlled from an external DVB-receiver.
* Recording and play-back of 16:9 information flag.

/Jan

"Oldus Fartus" <denisand@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote in message
news:43daf0e5$0$18603$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
I cleaned out my folders the other day and for me, this thread
starts with Mickey's reply. The OP's post was quoted though,
so I should have read that, sorry. Not that this changes my
reply to Mickey's assertions. Mickey's claim seems to be that
the DVD Recorder MUST have a hard drive. He originally
only offered Editing as the reason for the need of a Hard Drive.
Now he offers the idea that the collection of video for recording
to DVD *must* take place in the DVD Recorder.

I offered "There may be some value to having a hard drive, say
if you wanted to store up small clips until you had enough for a
DVD, for example." as one reason besides Editing, that he could
have used. I don't however agree that the Recorder is the only or
best place to store up video for inclusion in a DVD.

As I explained I use a DirecTiVo DVR, it can automatically record
the satellite signal of the shows I may wish to record, based on a
"season pass" setting, to its Hard Drive. It collects up whatever I
want no matter when or on what channel it is broadcast. For this
reason, and a few others, I find this approach to be far superior to
doing the collecting on the Hard Drive of a DVD Recorder.

Another way to collect up shows with a PC and a DVD Recorder
is to use DVD+RW disks to bring the shows to your PC and
collect them up there. This has the benefit of having the material to
be edited on a local hard drive within the same system as your editing
and authoring software, when the time comes to do your editing. This
method also has no requirement for a hard drive in the DVD Recorder.

Now don't get me wrong, I see nothing but a benefit from having
a hard drive as part of a DVD Recorder , but the consideration
needs to be based on whether the added benefit is =/> the added
cost; not because someone says : "A dvd recorder is basically worthless
if it doesn't have a harddrive."

Luck;
Ken

"mindesign" <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:9QBCf.711$k6.13357@nasal.pacific.net.au...
Actually it is quite simple and even more so under the conditions
you describe. The tools on my PC make quick and easy work of
the editing you mention, and a great deal more. I use my DVD
Recorder's recording functions almost exclusively for VHS to
DVD "transfers".

It provides a couple of benefits over using any of my PC capture
setups. One, it's works "off-line" for the time consuming real time
capture process. There is no need to tie up a computer to do the
capture. Two, the DVD Recorder that I use has very effective video
and audio input filtering to include a Time Base Corrector (TBC) as
well as color correction and a sophisticated AGC. These are all
features that greatly improve VHS Tape capture.

The DVD Authoring program that I use (TMPGEnc DVD Author
1.6 (TDA) ) will extract the MPEG Data from the DVD+RW disk
and make .mpg files available for my editing software or to use
directly in the building of a new DVD. It's really a quick and easy
process.




but uses a special TiVo scheduling service. The DirecTiVo actually
records the satellite's demuxed channel signal (a form of MPEG2)
directly from the tuner. When it plays this back it is exactly the same
signal as if it were being played live off the tuner. A regular TiVo
takes any S-Video or Composite Video Analog signal and Encodes
that to MPEG. It has a tuner for local and basic cable channels as
well as an "IR Blaster" to control satellite or cable boxes.

What I find my self doing now is capturing directly to my PC and
placing high quality MPEG 2 files on my Buffalo "TeraStation" NAS
for serving to my "LinkTheater" HD media player, over my LAN.
Also, no coasters, no ads, and no hassles. www.buffalotech.com

Luck;
Ken

Sorry for posting between lines and uppercase but necessary in this case.


Mickey's claim seems to be that
I didn't say that, I said it would be impractical not to have a HD!


"Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:U6SdnRnAUplwwUbeRVn-hg@giganews.com...
DOZEN DISKS?


IT IS IF YOU HAVE TO SPEND ALL THAT TIME COPY FROM YOUR SATELITE TO TIVO TO
YOUR PC
the recorder. I collected the episodes over niine weeks at the end of which
I ended up with nine edited episodes in my recorder I then created my nenu's
and burnt them all to one disk. No need to plug and unplug Tivo's to and
from my pc. Everything done, recorded,edited, menued and burnt, all from my
recorder without having to move equipment around. I'm not knocking you for
that, if it makes you happy then that's all that counts. Ask someone else
who has a HD in their recorder and they may probably say as I did that it's
a must. Also, what else is a must are the editing features. My first
recorder had a HD but lousy editing features so I returned it.
If you buy a recorder then I strongly suggest it has a HD with good editing
features.
that's all that matters, just don't ask for opinions and then ridicule
someone for answering.

Now I'm going to post and get some opinions, replies might be interesting.

MICKEY

"Mickey Mouse" <MickeyMouse@DisneyLand.com> wrote in message
news:43db6ff3$0$22328$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
<Snip>
Me:
I have given you two examples: see below.


I Edit on my PC, either from DVD+RW disks or by direct
connection to my DirecTiVo. I find www.VodeoReDo.com
to be my favorite but sometimes Womble's Video Wizard
can do a more complete job.


Of course, I can do a much better job of that on my PC.

Actually the DirecTiVo unit has two satellite tuners and its own
hard drives. In my case I have a direct connection to my PC and
its Real-Time Hardware capture card. For this discussion and
use with a DVD Recorder that connection would be to the DVD
Recorder, where it would do the Real-Time Hardware capture
onto a DVD+RW disk. (In both cases only the one digitization
and encoding is required. All the processing/editing done on the
PC is with this same digital data.)

What's this stuff below? It was not a part of my post, nor do
I see any of it in this thread. It looks to be one of your postings
and you are again saying "it's a must".

In article <28-dnamMyvzzIUfeRVn-oA@giganews.com>,
Ken Maltby <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
What is the make/model of your DVR if I may ask?

Bill

--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com

In article <43db6ff3$0$22328$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> ,
Mickey Mouse <MickeyMouse@DisneyLand.com> wrote:
You didn't say 'impractical' you said 'basically worthless' which
comes awfully close to MUST in my interpretation.

--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com

"Bill Vermillion" <bv@wjv.com> wrote in message news:Iu1K3o.uJH@wjv.com...
I picked-up a Refurbished RCA DRC8000N for ~$140 a
couple of years ago. I'm sure there are better options by now.
Part of the criteria that I was using may not be of importance
to others. Like the fact that it uses the Philips SAA7118H A/D
chip, or that it is a DVD"+" recorder.

I make no use of the tuner or the "Guide plus+" function, nor
any of its editing features. I do route my VHS player through it
and take advantage of the TBC and filtering, as well as convert
it to a Progressive Component signal for my HD Projector. This
way even the VHS Tapes that I don't bother to copy to DVD
look good.

Luck;
Ken