Another guy posted this link. Upon reading it I had many questions about the
real purpose of "Trusted Computing". In short, I think it is a scam. What
do you guys think?


http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Michael
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

Michael Pelletier <mjpelletier@mjpelletier.com> wrote in
news:4dbde.9091$_K.994@fed1read03:



It's not a scam - it has a very real purpose. But that purpose is not to
benefit the consumer - at least not primarily. And there's the rub!

Regards,

nemo_outis wrote:

I agree with that statement. It is to benefit "big business"....

Michaeel
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

Michael Pelletier <mjpelletier@mjpelletier.com> wrote in
news:U8cde.9772$_K.4075@fed1read03:


Exactly!

Jim Watt wrote:

Jim,

You can disagree with me if you want. That is ok as this is just a
discussion and I am as equally interested in people's opinions that differ
from mine as well as the ones that don't. Please be respectfull and logical
in your arguments. In other words, please act your age...

Michael
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

nemo_outis wrote:

....this just reinforces my opinion that it is time to drop Microsoft and go
to linux/*BSD solutions...

The idea that some software company has power over *MY* computer really
irritates me...

Michael
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

Jim Watt wrote:

On the contrary. I do understand it and do not like it. Which is why I
posted it. :-)

I posted this as a question intentionally. I already have an opinion but, I
wanted to hear what other people's opinions were....and it seemed like the
best way.

Yes it was.

Quite depressing when you put it that way....

The chip will be mandatory for everyone, I am afraid....

Big Business or Terrorists. Seems someone is always hungry to take it
away...all fueled by excessive greed.

Personally, I hope the World goes open source.

Michael
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

Michael Pelletier wrote:


Here is another document from the GNU organization...


http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html


Michael
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

On 2005-05-02, Michael Pelletier <mjpelletier@mjpelletier.com> wrote:
That was an excellent link Michael. Thanks.

M.

Mixin' wrote:

Thanks. I am surprised that more people are not as angry as me about
this...This whole design smells to foul for me. It is Open Source time...

Michael
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

"Trusted Computing" is a SCAM
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html

Michael Pelletier <mjpelletier@mjpelletier.com> wrote in news:sAxde.12898
$_K.5216@fed1read03:



Ross Anderson of Cambridge (Yeah, I'm a fan) has written several scholarly
articles on the *limitations* of the open-source model (good to be reminded
that our panaceas aren't! :-)

One article in this vein is:

Open and Closed Systems are Equivalent (that is, in an ideal world)
http://www.ftp.cl.cam.ac.uk/ftp/user...ulousebook.pdf

Another article (that also touches on trusted computing - spit!) is:

Security in Open versus Closed Systems: The Dance of Boltzmann, Coase and
Moore
http://www.ftp.cl.cam.ac.uk/ftp/user...4/toulouse.pdf

Regards,

nemo_outis wrote:

Good papers. They were long but, very intertesting. I think more interesting
is how big business is trying to sugar coat this by saying how it will
enhance security when in fact it is all about controlling what people do on
their computers. Indeed, if they get their way, your computer will be
nothing more than a terminal to the "microsoft network". Your computer will
no longer serve you but, in fact, serve big American business interests.
What you do, how you do it and who you do it with. Shame on them for this
and shame on anyone that sits idly by without doing anything.

Michael
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

"Trusted Computing" is a SCAM
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html

Michael Pelletier <mjpelletier@mjpelletier.com> wrote in
news:Cdzde.12916$_K.6130@fed1read03:


For the longest time I have been a fan of encryption to produce computer
privacy and, more broadly, privacy in general. In fact, one of the areas
in which I have been commercially active is financial privacy (and it has
been a monumental struggle to avoid running afoul of the money laundering
laws - especially since 9/11) (In my view money laundering is the "crime"
of keeping financial matters private from the intrusions of government.)

I pushed for full OTFE HD software encryption, and I still think there is a
*major* role for hardware based encryption. So, I'm in favour of things
like the TPM chip - but with one *gigantic* difference: I want the consumer
to be in control rather than business.

So, count me in favour of hardware encryption, but with the *consumer's*
finger on the trigger.

Regards,

nemo_outis wrote:

Sure. I do not have a problem with any well thoughtout, *standards based*,
hardware encryption technologies. But you an I know that this whole project
is about much more than the general statement of "security". It is really
about control. Controlling what the user does, with whom and how he does
it. It is about taking the "P" out of "PC" and making it just a terminal
that is remotely controlled/governed by big business. Think about it, Open
Source projects like OpenOffice (which is quite nice on both Windows and
Linux/*BSD) would be denied with a message "Sorry this program is not
allowed to run on *YOUR* computer....etc...etc...etc


It reeks of big business greed...

Michael
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

"Trusted Computing" is a SCAM
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html

Michael Pelletier wrote:
But who is watching the guardians.

Some of the effort Microsoft is doing, things like requiring services to
be specifically turned on versus turning everything on to be turned off
by user is a very good thing (server 2003 is first I had seen this).
Most other OSs I have seen have been doing this for years.

I do like Linux, but for the average Mom it is too complex for use.
Lindows came close, but most users did not understand underpinnings.
Myself the license idea is better. There are a lotta folks who
shouldn't be driving on this superhighway. So I guess it will be up to
me to set up the first Internet licensing agency. Now where should I
have folks send those license application fees....

Winged

Michael Pelletier wrote:

Winged wrote:

Exactly.

Sure, this was a good idea that Microsoft implemented. They may have come
later to the "dinner table" but it was welcomed by all.

I tried an experiment. Eight months ago, I totally migrated my home from
Windows to FreeBSD (I have one Red Hat box too). Now, my girlfriend is the
"typical helpdesk nightmare". First, she is from Brazil and computers there
are not as part of the culture as they are here. That being said, she is
quite the novice when it comes to computing. Anyway, she has been using
FreeBSD now for 8 months with high proficiency. I must admit, I believed
the hype about *NIX not being easily learned a little but, I was proved
wrong. What she did illustrate to me is that computing is computing. People
will always need time to learn but, once they have done this they can
become proficient. In this case Windows, Apple and *NIX are all the same.

So, for the last 8 months Windows has not been used in my hose at *ALL*. Not
once. I must admit, I thought it would be more difficult. Anyway, I can do
everything I did before and more...I only wish I had done this earlier.

I have never used Lindows. I have heard of some good things. Please explain
the above statement. I am afraid you lost me....

This is true. There are many people using computers without a clue about
computers. Back to the UNIX comparison, no matter what operating system you
use, training is always required...

Here is the part that pisses me off the most. American businesses have
forgotten the basics of business. R&D a product. Make the best product at
the best price. Whoever does it the best wins. Instead they have begun to
limit innovation. In fact, they have replaced innovation with litigation.
Using lawyers to push bogus IP claims and laws.

I have a feeling that the rest of the World will go a different direction
than where the US businesses are trying to prod the World. Good.

Michael
--

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -
Linus Torvald

"Trusted Computing" is a SCAM
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html

nemo_outis wrote:
I couldn't agree more...

Regards,
John

On 5/1/2005 2:28 PM, nemo_outis wrote:
"benefit the consumer" and polititions who line the pockets of their
cronies while telling the middle class that it's for their own good.
Then, it the face of the obvious, we vote them back into office. (They
then take their slim majority and crow about their "mandate")
SHeesh!

-- John