I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep it
low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
some motivation to keep the price down.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't kept
up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the 'C'
800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
I'm all ears.

All advice appreciated.

[All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]

MSI. Best lower priced boards.

G



"Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b2f01e$0$25775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

Why would you overclock a general use computer? It's just asking for
trouble.

btb

"Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b2f01e$0$25775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

Jeff Conescu wrote:

The cost of the processor is your biggest problem with any Intel system. You
can find good boards are reasonable prices everywhere.

However, the best bang for the buck and the cheapest isn't always the same.
The best motherboard for the money is hands down the Asus P4P800-E Deluxe.
It's currently about $112 US. It's rock solid. If you're just looking for
something with less features and less money than that, then take a look at
the MSI 865PE NEO2-V for $72 US. The MSI board contains Fuzzy Logic, where
it dynamically overclocks your CPU on demand. Therefore, it runs normally
when it's no on load, keeping it cool, and throttles up under load to give
you peak perfromance. Pretty nice...

"Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b2f01e$0$25775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
[snip]

What chipset driver hassles? Get an NForce2 based board and stay away from
VIA (even they have gotten much better) and there are no "chipset driver
hassles" to speak of.


Sure. For around $200.00 US, snatch up an Athlox XP 2500 Barton core (while
there are some left to snatch -- get a mobile unit if you really want to
crank it up and don't mind seeing an "unknown processor" error at POST),
throw it an an ABIT NF7/AN7 series motherboard, put on a decent heatsink,
crank up the front side bus until the system is just on the edge of stable
and then back it down a few megahertz for "bang for the buck" system that
will fly.

Example of the Abit NF7-S here:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...127-166&depa=1


Example of the Abit AN7 here:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...127-167&depa=1


Standard AMD Athlon XP 2500 Barton here:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...127-167&depa=1

Mobile AMD Athlon XP 2500 Barton here:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...103-401&depa=1

The advantages of the mobile version of the processor are an unlocked
multiplier, a lower rated operating voltage at rated speed (more headroom
for overclocking), lower power dissipation (until you crank up the core
voltage) and the ability to consistently overclock to Athlon XP 3200 class
speeds among most examples.

If you can beat that combo for $200.00 US with an Intel based setup, let me
know.

"Bruce T. Berger" <btb@Ican'tstandspam.no> wrote in message
news:wQCsd.2403$Ew6.1472@twister.socal.rr.com...
I'd be interested to know why you *think* that is true.

"Gorbag" <gorbag@gettaefuyaspammers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:41b2f30b$0$53011$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
Agrees. I have a dual processor MSI board for my server. It is rock
solid....

In article <NfEsd.1886$yr1.182@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et>
Oxford Systems <oxfordsystems@earthlinkdot.net> wrote:
In his alternate universe.

--
Lady Chatterly

"The imprimatur of Lady Chatterly. I'm so jealous." -- Dr. Zen

Jeff Conescu wrote:

Check out the Asus P4P800E, its loaded with features for the price and IMO
vastly better than the AI7 (I have both boards).
I paid about $170 for mine.

I can o/clock much higher with the Asus with greater stability compared to
the Abit. Currently it has a 3.06GHz running at ~3.3GHz with average temps
under 40C, which is pretty good considering (keeping in mind I´m not too
concerned about o/clocking to the limit).

You get just about all the right features such as SATA, RAID, 7.1 sound,
Gigabit LAN, 11.b wireless LAN, Firewire... and a AGP slot of course.
The BIOS is better than the Abit, as is the monitoring and o/clocking
software that comes with it.

To be honest I´m not entirely happy with my AI7... its a little cantankerous
and has a few annoying traits in my book. I bought into the good reputation
Abit has, instead of sticking with Asus... wish I hadn't in hindsight.

Can you tell which board I prefer?

Then again, maybe the AI7 is now much cheaper than the P4P800E? I´m not sure
what the current prices are but I know that I essentially paid the same
amount for both mobos only a couple of months apart.



--
/Jeßus/

you can shave off some bucks by foregoing the 800mhz FSB
and perhaps going with a socket 478 celeron.

"Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b2f01e$0$25775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

"Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b2f01e$0$25775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
So what was your question again? OH, I see . . . you want to know if anyone
can offer you a reason NOT to do what you are planning to do. Nope, looks
pretty good.

I'd advise you not to overclock, but if you are going to ignore that good
advice . . . why the heck would you choose a 2.8? 2.4 will be cheaper and
will overclock better (if anything could be said to overclock "well", that
is). Plus, if you are building a gaming rig, you really need to pump more
money into the video card. -Dave

IC7-G

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 130,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b2f01e$0$25775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

"Jeff Conescu" wrote


Hi,

The ABIT AI7 is a great motherboard, stick in a 2.8GHz Northwood and you are
on your way to a great system. My 2.8GHz runs at 3.5GHz (250MHz-FSB) no
problems on the AI7.

On the AMD side of thing you could pick up a Thoroughbred, Barton or Sempron
and stick it in a n-Force2 mobo and have a sweet system.

Lastly there is A64's which have come down in price allot, but I have no
personal experience with them myself yet.

I have been buying allot of 2ndhand kit from eBay, and despite the rumours I
heard about eBay being full of rip-off merchants all my 24 won-auctions have
arrived, and all the stuff I tested so far works great. Building a small
fleet of ATHLONS, there being sold off so cheap now on eBay as people
clamber to get on the A64 train. . . . .

Wayne ][

You can go cutting edge on that budget. Something built on the Intel
D915PCYL, maybe. I use only Intel retail-boxed products when building. Intel
offers excellent quality, support and warranty. If he'll be playing games
like Doom3, then a serious graphics card is in order. A card with decent
reviews can be found at
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...170-044&depa=1.

The IS7 is a great board, I have one in my machine right here. But to stay
within budget, and get good price/performance I would go with AMD. If you
stick with an Nforce2 board, you will not have any more driver hassles than
with an Intel based board. I would suggest the Abit NF7 series. I built one
for a friend last year with an Athlon XP 2500+ and it has been rock solid.
Nvidias drivers are stable and updated relatively regularly. On top of that,
it is just one installation executable that gets all the chipset drivers
installed. The motherboard/cpu combo can be had for less than $150 US.

"Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b2f01e$0$25775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

"Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b2f01e$0$25775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
Mike.

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 22:25:28 +1100, "Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com>
wrote:

What sort of games are we talking about here? Many high-end games
require a cutting edge PC to run well (graphics intensive). Of course
if you're talking Solitaire and MahJong...

jd

"Jimmy Dean" <jd@nowhere.now> wrote in message
news:t4d7r09jpbkand8gfoo4f2fmdg7fovva99@4ax.com...
for the OP, don't by a cheap power supply... those are usually the first to
expire.
larger cases require less cooling. smaller cases require more cooling. more
cooling = faster dust accumulation. integrated video is not recommended for
3d gaming. integrated audio is acceptable. integrated usb2 is desireable.
integrated NIC's can be a headache when troubleshooting networking problems.

-a|ex

Jeff Conescu wrote:

I didn't know that AMD solutions imply "chipset driver hassles".

"Jeff Conescu" <coneyg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b2f01e$0$25775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
I'm using an AMD right now, and when it comes to temps where you live, you
want a
AMD, 2500+ M or something is what I would suggest.
A P4C may get to hot where you live, they cant cope with the high temps.
The P4 (Prescott)'s just run hot, reason is power, they need something like
103Wats
This is why they get soo hot.
Almost all the AMD Athlon's can run warmer then the P4c's and stay stable.
I've tested both my system's last summer under extreme conditions.
I left room temp get up to around 84ºF, then ran Sandra burn in test on
both.
I set it the same on both, + Both systems were Overclocked.
P4 2.6 C Overclocked to 3 Or so on z GHZ
AMD 2200+ Overclocked to 2.18 Or so on z GHZ
The AMD lasted the longest before it became unstable enough to restart.
It got through about 6 or 7 of the 10 tests.
The Intel just made it through 3.
Now, imagine if neither of the two systems were overclocked.
Room temp @ 73 or 70ºF, they both got through all 10 tests.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<Getting back to the point now>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If I were you, I would get one of the Asus A7N8X boards.
It's not the best video cards out there, and only 4x, but if you could find
a
Radeon 9000 (used), that would keep things cheap.
You don't really need to buy a sound card, but if you were to get one, I
would go
with a Creative SB Audigy LS They are a some what cheap sound card, but
still sound nice.
I should know, I do have one of everything I've listed so far, or did.
I gave my Radeon 9000 to my step nephew with an MSI Combo board.
Also a 2000+ chip, and 256Mb ram, 120GB drive, and cd-rom.
Together with a 350 W PSU.

If you really want to go with Intel, be my guest.
Get one of the better boards to the Gigabyte 8IG1000 Pro
There's more then one of them, and trust me, Intel Extreme Grapgics are not
the best,
but it's good for the money.

Then you only need
"" You'll need these for either of the two systems, I think you know this
though. ""
"Ram, cd-rom, HDD of some kind, Case, and PSU."
Unless you can take it from a system you already have.

Anyways, I hope this helps, and if you need anything else, just ask.
If you want to know about Overclocking, this is the group for it.
And the A7N8X line is good for it. (AMD)
Anything Better then a Gigabyte GA-8IG1000 Pro is good for this too.
(Intel P4 C & E)

No_ONE_Here