I like saving stuff off the TV and am looking for a better solution
than I currently have.

I have TIVO and a DVD recorder. I record with TIVO then copy to the
recorder.

Labelling the disc and the titles on the disc is a time-consuming
process with the recorder.

I would like to be able to edit out commercials - which the recorder
does not allow.

I have Nero Ultra v6 (whatever the latest & greatest is called from
Nero).

Doing the stuff I would like to do has been problematic or impossible.
I accept the possibility that I'm just getting confused by the plethora
of options.

I'm very open to purchasing new software up to $100 in price.

I would like to be able to:
1) Quickly label the disc and the individual titles on the disc.

2) Quickly cut bits (i.e. commercials) out of the middle of titles but
yet the title would still be one continuous video afterwards.

3) Save video titles on my hard drive until I have a few similar titles
(such as, several episodes of Dobie Gillis) and then move those titles
(labelled & commercials removed) onto a DVD+RW or DVD+R.

I am not currently interested in backing up commercial DVDs nor in
creating DVDs from camcorders, etc.

Thanks & take care,
Melody

<songofruth2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107966343.007427.226820@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
Nero is probably the best burning software out there, but it is a
real pain to use for DVD production, and has some annoying
shortcomings in that area.

disk itself.

this supplies navigation data for play back. If you do an hour TV
show that will normally give you 5 or 6 clips that begin and end at
the commercial breaks. These are usually also the best places for
chapter points. When you play the title it will be one continuos
show.


That's what I do to save up six episodes for a DVD. I made a
directory structure on my capture drive for each series; like this:

D:\SG1 S3 D4
Track1
Track2
Track3
Track4
Track5
Track6

The "S3" = Season 3 and the "D4" = Disk 4. Each track will
contain an episode which will be a title on the DVD. The track
directories have the 5 or 6 .mpg files that make up the hour
(~43min) TV show with the commercials, credits and reoccurring
introduction removed using "VideoReDo", a frame accurate
MPEG NLE (Non Linear Editor). www.VideoReDo.com

"Best" is a subjective term here, and depends a lot on what
you intend, and end up, doing in this area.

I have a DirecTiVo DVR that I use to collect up shows for
my capture as you do. I also use a standalone DVD recorder,
but just to convert VHS tapes to DVD. Some of those tapes
are of TV specials with commercials and for those I use a
DVD+RW disk to bring them to my PC, for editing.

Most of my captures off the DVR are TV series episodes that
I build into six episode DVDs. I use a PCI capture card with
hardware MPEG encoding to do those captures, but it can be
done using the standalone DVD recorder, it will just require more
steps.

How you would go about it will depend on if you can set your
DVD Recorder to record to the parameters that you want for
the final DVD. If you can then no re-encoding will be necessary.

It will take some trial and error to find the settings on your DVD
Recorder that produce the results you want. I find that my
DirecTiVo DVR outputs a very clean S-Video signal that allows
for excellent MPEG compression. If there is any significant noise
on your Tivo's output you might need to use a higher bitrate to
achieve a given picture quality.

Try this: Capture in DVD compliant MPEG2 at 1/2 D1 (352x480)
use a VBR setting; if you have CQ settings available start at 90% and
adjust to your liking. If you don't have CQ, try setting your bitrate to
average 4000k and max 8000, and adjust from there. (If there is a Min
setting try 800k) This will give you DVD compliant MPEG ready to
author. ( Assuming you have a compatible audio format also; shouldn't
be a problem in your case.)

Standalone DVD Recorders seem to want to make this part of
the setup somewhat difficult, at least mine have. You may have to
come up with a way to trick it to use these settings. One way that
might work, is to convince it that it needs to fit an hour of recording
in ~750megs of space.

Now that you have your episode(s) recorded on a RW disk, you
can use "TMPGEnc DVD Author" (TDA) www.pegasys-inc.com
to extract the MPEG data and later make your new DVD with a
menu labeled as you want. At this time TDA can only make cuts at
"I-Frames" at a point that occurs every 1/2 sec, they are expected
to add their frame accurate editing capability to TDA sometime this
year. Even the "I-Frame" cut is normally good for removing the
commercials, as they usually have a substantial "fade to black"
transition, with several "I-frame" cut points in the black.

You can use VideoReDo to do frame accurate cuts now, by
keeping track of where TDA puts the MPEG data it extracts from
your RW disk. Then have VideoReDo output to a directory
structure like I described above.

If not using VideoReDo, after TDA has extracted the episode,
you would exit TDA, without making any DVD. Then open
Windows Explorer (or its equivalent) and find the directory that
TDA put your MPEG data in. Use Control-A to select the .mpg
files and move them to the "Track#" for that episode. It could be
that there is only one big .mpg, that's ok and you will only have
the one in your "Track#" folder for the step below.

When you have all the episodes you need for your DVD, start
TDA and use the "Add file" button and select your Track1
folder. Use Control-A to select all 5or6 .mpg files and click
the "Open" button. Click the "Ok" button for each file to add
them as chapters to your title/track. Then click on the blue "Add
new track..." text, this will bring up a new source page for your
second title/track. Now use the "Add file" button, and find your
Track2 folder, add those .mpg. Click on the blue "Add new track
...." text for the next, ect... until all are added.

If you haven't already edited your clips with VideoReDo; then
use the "Chapter cut edit" of TDA to remove the commercials and
add chapter points for your first title/track. If you used VideoReDo
you are ready to go. You would continue on through the rest of
your titles/tracks.

Now double-click on the "Untitled track 1" box on the left side of
the screen. This will give you the "Track settings" window with the
track name highlighted, just type in whatever text you want to be
the label for that title/track in your menu. I use the official episode
titles. Hit enter when you are done. Do the same for your other
titles/tracks.

Ok, all that's left to do is create a menu and TDA can do the rest.
So on to "Create menu", now much that I'll describe you only need
to do once for each series or type of menu theme you'll use.

First don't bother with the premade menu themes, make your own,
it's easy. Click on the dropdown arrow in the box on the upper left.
At the bottom of the list there is "New theme...", click on that. I'll
walkthrough how mine are made, but it should give you some idea
of the possibilities and how easy it really is. (Much easier to do, than
to describe.)

For my menus I use a text only "Layout" with six track selections
(Layout 6 (#3) with my version of TDA); as thumbnails would just
get in the way. I'll only be using the main menu so the track menu
layout won't matter, neither will the thumbnail frame or the
background image. Any button style that will suit your eventual
background clip, you can reset it later.

[A little preparation can help improve the next step. Sense we are
making use of text it is real handy to have some neat Fonts to use.
I recently picked up a "Snap! 4,000 Fonts" CD-ROM for $5 from
"Best Buy" it was pretty good. You can find some very good fonts
for free on the net : Check out
http://moorstation.org/typoasis/desi...onts/shy_a.htm
for free fonts

I use the reoccurring introductions that most shows have as "Motion
menu backgrounds". So I capture and edit that part of the show as
a separate clip and label it as something like MonkIntro.mpg. ]

Now we have our basic menu theme, we need to customize, and
name it for a particular series.

( If things look jumbled now don't worry, we'll fix it later.)

First the Motion Menu : click on the background and then
the "Open file" button, find and select the Introduction.mpg for this
series. Find the start point (if you edited it the start would usually be
00:00:00;00) slide the "slider" to the right and find a good end point,
subtract the start point from the end point and that is the length of
the clip playback you want. Click on the "Menu display settings"
button and set the "Display menu settings" to "Only Main menu";
the "Firstplay action:" to "Display Main menu" the next one the
same. Now click on the "Motion menu" tab and set: "Use motion
menu"; "Additional pictures for background ect" and "Use audio of
the background video as the menu BGM." Lastly, set the "Length
of the motion menu:" to the length you found above.

Now we use the "Edit menu theme" button.

First you might want to right click on the background and select
the option settings for "Show the TV safe area" and "Show frame".
(maybe they are on by default, can't remember.) Then you might
use the "Edit" button on the bottom to set a common font and text
color "for all pages".

Now save and name your theme, with all your settings and the
background clip. You might want to tweak your settings and
resave your theme someday, but for now you won't have to
bother with most of the above again.

---- Below is all you normally do with a menu once you theme
has been made--------------------

So now you have your Custom Menu with your track titles,
but they may be jumbled a little. No problem, just use the
"Edit menu theme" button to bring up the "Edit menu theme"
window. Now when you click on an item you can move it
around, or grab an edge and change its size, however you
want. Set things as you want them and click "Ok".
( You don't have to save the theme again.)
------------------------------------------

Last you go on to "Output" and have TDA make your DVD.
You can use the built-in burning app or feed TDA's results to
Nero.

Luck;
Ken

Just a quick reply to let you know WOW what a great response. I'll
need to digest it more tomorrow but it's close to my bedtime. I'll
respond more tomorrow. I'll be taking the video from my DirecTIVO to
my DVD recorder onto a DVD-RW. That's how it'll get onto my computer.
I don't have the hardware otherwise on my 'puter plus the TIVO & 'puter
are in separate rooms on separate floors of the house.

More tomorrow. Thanks again.

Take care,
Melody

"songofruth" <songofruth2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108000654.250777.86630@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
If you could post the Make and Model of your DVD Recorder,
it would be helpful.

Luck;
Ken

My original DVD recorder is/was Philips DVDR985. A fairly large box
that I've had for a bit over 2 years and does not now seem to function
very well (disc errors when recording, refusal to recognize disc).

The one I'm currently using is also a Philips. It's a DVDR72.

If you want more identifying info than that I'll need to check the back
of the boxes.

I'm not that fond of the way some of the features behave but hey they
were gifts and the irritations are not bad enough to make me go out and
purchase another one.

Take care,
Melody

Ken Maltby wrote:

Ken Maltby wrote:
I downloaded TDA, played about (nice) and burned with it. It seemed to
do an okay job. Would Nero really do a better one?

Yep, the menus. A sharpie is doing the outside labeling.

The DVD recorder already adds chapter marks. But my experimentation
with TNA this morning tells me I should delete all original chapter
marks and add them where you suggest.

Thanks for the idea on directory structures!

I downloaded VideoReDo but haven't tried it yet. I cut out commercials
with TDA - not a bad job but time consuming... but that's probably to
be expected anyhow.


There's not easy way to connect my TIVO to my 'puter. So I'll just
stick with sneakernet for now. I plan on connecting my VCR to the DVD
recorder to copy some tapes I'd recorded back before DVD days. That
should free up some space in my overcrowded house.

How much play time is that for 6 episodes? Is there much quality
degradation by stuffing so many onto the disc?

Nope. It's a pretty dumb recorder as far as such things.

<snip>

I'll probably just use TDA's burner.

Well, I have some playing around to do! Thanks again!

Take care,
Melody

"songofruth" <songofruth2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108048072.666708.213860@l41g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
I burn my DVD Video disks with the TDA utility. Where Nero
is "Better" is in all the other types of burning it can do, well.


That would probably be best if you are recording them as one long
clip. Keep in mind that you can use the TiVo "Peanut" Remote to
fast forward through the commercial while you are recording. When
you see the show start back up, hit the play button then the back
button then play again when you are near the end of the last
commercial of that break. You will then only have a small part to
remove later, and you can record what was an hour of TV in 45min.
if you do the same for the reoccurring introduction.


VideoReDo also ensures that the MPEG header data reflects the
actual MPEG data and not "padding", and can generally make the
MPEG more strictly adhere to the DVD Standard. This can
correct a lot of potential problems and make TDA's job easier.

Not with my setup, I even put 7 episodes per DVD for one series.
But I have much greater control over the encoding parameters and
as I said the DirecTiVo S-Video output is very clean.



M1 = 720x480 8000k AC3 @ 384kbps
M2 = 720x480 7260k AC3 @ 256kbps
M2x = 720x480 5740k AC3 @ 256kbps
M3 = 720x480 5010k AC3 @ 256kbps

M4 = 352x480 3740k AC3 @ 256
M6 = 352x480 2570k AC3 @ 192

So using the clean S-Video source from your DirecTiVo, you
should get very good results using the M6 setting. You might
want to use the M4, for a Musical or concert , for the better
audio. ( I find 192 great for most TV even if it has a musical
component) If you have a HDTV then you might want to try the
M2x, with the S-Video source, but you won't fit that much on
a single DVD.


The Philips support sites show a Firmware Update available,
(6.2 for your model) but you may want to hold off on updating
as some have reported problems afterwards. That is most likely
just the rare case, but I would see what you can do with the
current firmware first. One thing new firmware can often provide
is more compatibility with available blank media.

There is an interesting "feature" mentioned in the User's Manual
for your DVDR 72/17, It seems you can have 3 different disk
header data, so as to make the disk compatible in different players.
They have it so if you reinsert the DVD+RW and hold a number
key (1,2, or 3) it will change the disk. This could be useful if you
have hardware or software that has a problem with your disks.

Luck;
Ken

Ken Maltby wrote:
Cool. Much nicer to use just two apps rather than 3.

Before I got a burner for my 'puter I would record with the recorder as
you say about the commercials. But I finally got tired of babysitting
it and so started recording commercials and all. I have 2 computers
and can use the one to fiddle with the recordings while I use the other
for work or play.

Hmmm... I'll have to try that for a bit then.

I've been thinking in old "tape" terms... where if you recorded 2 hours
to the tape it was a higher quality than if you tried to stuff 6 hours
on it. Doh!

I have an HDTV separate from the TIVO (too expensive to get the
DirecTIVO for HD). So it sounds like I should stick with the M2x. I'm
not sure how the TIVO & recorder are connected... probably using the
composite video ports. I'll ask DH.

Well, the old recorder seems fairly unusable right now so doing an
upgrade on it certainly won't hurt thing.

Yep, I've seen that feature. So far it hasn't been needed or made a
difference to any of the players I've tried the discs on or with any of
the software I've used so far.

Thanks bunches, Ken.

Take care,
Melody

"Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news6OdnWIdXaqRDpffRVn-2Q@giganews.com...

The 5 or 6 mpg files will become chapters. Go figure.

Then go in an add labels to each and then when authoring labels to the
menus.

Until you get frustrated from this if you have many entries.

Tivo files are proprietary Mpeg2.

"Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:FcWdnRkYCvyIVJffRVn-2A@giganews.com...

"Alpha" <logos1@trip.net> wrote in message
news:110tv417jvs1tda@corp.supernews.com...
cases.

"Untitled track#" label. We want to leave it that way for now.


and they will automatically become the Text for that track in the menu.

Don't you have to name your Titles at some point, why not do it
here? As you can see we only have to name them once, not twice
as you claimed, the last time we went over this.