I compose experimental electronic music. I have a Mac G5 running
OX10. I work on Digi.Performer 5.1. I want to create professional
quality music video's. Some will be compressed onYouTube but I want
to start with high res stuff. I'm sure I will have many questions on
this forum but for openers, what is the best DigiCam for my purposes?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:32:22 -0700, pbotkin@earthlink.net wrote:

If you would give us an idea about your budget, and maybe what country you
live, we might be able to serve you better. Your post is a bit too broad.

cheers

-martin-
--
Official website "Jonah's Quid" http://www.jonahsquids.co.uk

Thanks for answering my post, Martin. I live in the USA.
Budget? . . Up to $800. I'm looking for suggestions from people who
are currently shooting then editing in iMovie. Does your DigiCam
fulfill your asthetic needs and what are they? Does it work
compatably with iMovie? Of course simplicity of operation would be a
great help. I know I'm asking a lot but. . . what the hell.

Thanks again.

Perry

perrybotkin.com


On Sep 1, 11:27 am, Martin Heffels <goo...@flikken.net> wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:05:12 -0700, pbotkin@earthlink.net wrote:

That's a bit of a help :-) With your budget, and the fact that you want to
do hi-res stuff, may I suggest to put in a litle bit more money, and start
with the Canon HV20. It's a HDV-camera, with full-HD (marketing speak)
sensor. Since you are going to shoot music-video's, I assume this means
playback of the music, and that you are not going to actually record the
music on the camera, correct? If you want to do the latter, be aware that
he sound is recorded compressed, so the quality of the sound suffers from
it.
Also, you need to be aware of the video compression-problems which can
occur when using HDV. It doesn't like very fast movement, and if you have
very fine gradations in colour or use smoke, that might start looking funny
to.
If all these things are a worry to you, I can suggest to have a look into a
2hd-hand Sony VX2000/2100 or maybe a Panasonic DVX100. They might be
available within your budget. These camera's are top-of-the-range mini-DV
camera's, which do not suffer from the above mentioned
compression-problems, but they record in standard-definition size.

They should all work on the latest versions of iMovie. Next I would suggest
you upgrade to Final Cut Pro Express or maybe the whole she-bang, to
unleash your creative editing powers as well :-)

cheers

-martin-
--
Official website "Jonah's Quid" http://www.jonahsquids.co.uk

On Sep 1, 10:32 am, pbot...@earthlink.net wrote:
Martin gave you some great advice. I'll just add my $0,02.
1) You're saying you want to do a professional job, but then give a
low amateur budget. True you can get a cam for under $500, certainly
under your $800, but when you say you want quality, and even use the
word "professional," realize what you see every minute on TV,
regardless of creative quality, costs many, many thousands. People
are used to seeing very good technical quality every minute on movies
and TV and presume it's easy. It isn't. And it isn't cheap.
2) That said, you can do a decent, and in fact, much better quality
job now than ever before, because quality has gone up and prices have
come down. In cams, software, computers, etc.
3) I recommend going with high definition. Realize you will burn
final DVD's in standard definition, but a) have the option of burning
HD, and b) your standard def will be much better quality because you
started with a HD video. (and you'll be ready to move into HD
productions using all your video from the beginning). You will have
to live with the problems Martin mentioned, but just plan around
them. To eliminate them would probably cost you $20K. You would need
a full, uncompressed HD camera, a very fast computer, enormous amounts
of hard drive space, and that's just to capture the initial video
clips that will then be editied. I might be wrong, maybe you can use
HDMI out and do it for $6K to start, but still, you get the idea it's
wayyyy beyond your budget. Let's see what is close...
4) The Canon HV20 is probably the best recommendation. But it's about
twice your budget. For sure, stick with HDV. Do NOT go to a HDD
(hard disk drive), DVD, or any variation of a AVCHD camcorder. They
have good quality to begin with, but to edit you must uncompress, re-
compress, and then there's a quality loss. HDV (tape only) is
compressed, but there are many good mpg2 editors out there with
minimal quality loss. Other cameras, and Martin or others may correct
me, are HV10, now much cheaper, or a Sony HC5 or even HC7. The HC5 is
close to your budget, as is the HV10. The HC7 is the same or a bit
more than the Canon, so best to go with the Canon HV20. Remember,
this is all widescreen, which will lend your work another professional
element. I use a Sony HC3 for B roll (2nd camera). It has no mic or
earphone jack, but it is HDV, takes great quality images, and I saw
one yesterday as Fry's (outpost.com) for under $500. That's because
they are discontinued. If you only want to take great images and just
use the video, no audio (it has on-camera microphones, not good
quality), this is a great option to start with. Ebay has HC3 cameras
for your budget also. Just look at # of transactions and feedback for
sellers. I got mine of eBay, but paid only $360.
5) Initially, don't plan on perfect synch of music and video. That
is, you'll shoot the video, remove the soundtrack, then put your new
composed music soundtrack on. Remember, you shouldn't cut the music
soundtrack. Just cut and place the video as desired. So I recommend
no keyboard shots to begin with. Later, you can use the sound track
waveform to synch with video of keyboard and finger work if desired,
but initially you'll find that very difficult. Although if the music
is all computer generated and played, this isn't an issue.
6) You want to do a professional job with amateur editing tools. Go
ahead and try. The quality of output will be near the same, but the
amateur editing software is very limiting on what you can do. As you
step up to mid and upper pro-sumer quality you'll find much more power
in options to control your video, audio, and really get creative.
But, you'll also find it will take a looooong time to learn the more
powerful software. Even after you learn, it will literally take hours
to create minutes of final version. That's standard, even for us who
produce strictly amateur quality, no professional music, DVD's.
If you are determined to do this, you can. But there will be much
frustration along the way, much learning, and finally, a reward you
can share with others. I've been shooting HD for 2 years (SD for
decades), but only making standard definition DVD's. I just learned
how to make a HD-DVD on standard DVD-R media (limited to 23 minutes),
and after several tries and days, not hours - days, several failures,
got a DVD+R DL (double layer regular DVD) to burn as a HD-DVD and play
back properly. Limited to 40 minutes, but to be able to burn HD-DVD's
without investing in a separate HD burner, or pay $15 per disc for
media, and get great quality is my most recent reward. Now I have to
re-edit a bunch of programs to get under 40 minutes!! Haven't even
tried Blu-Ray yet. That's next. Always learning.

Good luck.

Jim McGauhey
Washington State

search youTube for scubajam

On Sep 2, 10:18 am, Scubajam <jmcgau...@usa.net> wrote:

Thanks, Jim. As I re-read my initial post I realize I sound pretty
dumb. I am a rank amature in the video world. Not so in music
( http://www.perrybotkin.com ) but we're not discussing that here. I
want to add a visual component to several pieces from my CD's . I'm
starting from dead scratch with iMovie 5 and a tutorial ( iMovie at a
Glance ). That's it so far. I have a tech friend who will be helping
me out later but I want to get a running start. You and Martin been
very helpful.

Is it possible for me to place an audio waveform from my music program
into iMovie and add the visuals to it?

Has what I've said here altered my choices for a digicam?

Anyone?

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 10:18:32 -0700, Scubajam <jmcgauhey@usa.net> wrote:

All what Jim said, except:

I have to jump on this one. The price at B&H is US$999.95, so that is not
much higher than the budgetted US$800. At B&H you pay a bit more for the
service, but you can get it cheaper at other places. That's why I
recommended it as well (aprt from the bang-for-the-buck value).

cheers

-martin-
--
Official website "Jonah's Quid" http://www.jonahsquids.co.uk

On Sep 3, 7:19 am, Martin Heffels <goo...@flikken.net> wrote:
Great catch Martin!! I didn't realize they were that price. I use
only Sony because I need the LANC connector for controls in my
underwater housings. Canon used to have LANC on some models, but
seems to have stopped. I've seen the reviews for the HV20, but
thought it was over $1,500, maybe confused with another - not the
first time! Anyway, you're right, hands down, the HV20 is currently
the best choice for Perry. Not often we see such a single
recommendation on this forum.

So Perry - the next thing is to change your head into 16:9 format.
Might have to matte or zoom into your photos. I think you'll like it
once you get going. Of course, you can always crop, or ?? to the
video to change that aspect ratio also, but 16:9 works great once used
to it. I saw your site - nice intro, so you're obviously not totally
new to visual presentations. I know nothing about iMovie, but the cam
will work well with all editors, Mac and PC. The images from the
Canon are hard to beat with consumer or even pro-sumer equipment.
Regardless of Mac, a entry level editor will do great things, but for
complicated projects you'll find much more power (and mainly
efficiency) if you step up to multiple timelines. Still, you're
definitely on the right track, and the HV20 is a good choice to do
what you want with real, moving images. You've obviously produced
clips using photos, waveforms, and have a great grasp of how to create
integrated visuals with punch. I'll frequently have multiple
timelines working, with up to 99 tracks per timeline. Then each
timeline can be rendered to a separate project, or integrated. For ex
- I'll use the main timeline as my working clip library, being able to
cut, copy, paste, then create timelines called intro, ending, topside,
underwater, final, and even youtube. This way I can simultaneously
create several versions at one time as with final and youtube (add
website teaser, sample, complete program, etc). Also, make sure your
editor will work with HD (mpg) clips, or change the setting in your
camera (I presume HV20 will do this), to send DV (standard definition
Digital Video) out through the Firewire instead of HD. Capture as a
SD avi file and work with that. Still 16:9 ratio, but this will work
faster, cause fewer computer crashes (yes, I've heard even the Mac
crashes sometimes, esp with HD), and give great results. If you want
HD for final output, work with that, but if you're only going to ouput
in SD, start with SD clips and you'll be faster. Your iMovie
keystrokes may be different from what I use, but the concepts of NLE
work are the same.

Jim McG

On Sep 3, 10:04 am, Scubajam <jmcgau...@usa.net> wrote:


Glad you liked my site, Jim. <I saw your site - nice intro, so you're
obviously not totally new to visual presentations>. Unfortunatly I had
nothing to do with the production of the site. (I wish I did)
Maybe one of these days I'll know how the guys who made the Flash
Movie intro did it.

I started messing around with my music video idea in iMovie. I
created a "Main Title" and managed to load my 8:07 Audio track into
the program. Whoopeee! I know one thing for sure.......I've got a
lot to learn and a hell of a lot of work ahead.

Gotta' run. Have to Google B&H.

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 10:04:16 -0700, Scubajam <jmcgauhey@usa.net> wrote:

Yeah, don't go for 4:3 anymore. You'll have a hard time flogging that to
TV-stations.

-m-
--
Official website "Jonah's Quid" http://www.jonahsquids.co.uk