Anyone have good experience with the Sony HDR-HC1? If so, can you
comment on the quality and the video as well as the performance of the
camera. (looking for real people's opinion, not reviewers that may be
getting paid for an opinion).

Also, are there other cameras out there capable of recording in
HDV/1080i that you can recommend?

I understand that Sony also makes a Harddrive version that can record
HDD/1080i. Does anyone know if this format is still mpeg2 or mpeg4?
Or is it the HDV format? (BBY and CC were out of this camera and none
of the reps could answer these questions).

thanks much.

On 25 Dec 2006 01:49:09 -0800, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <HDV Camcorders...>,
"farseer" <farseer@optonline.net> wrote:

It's a holiday here and I'm NOT supposed to be sitting in front of
this computer today, so I'll be very brief.

There are some Web sites out there which cover the HDR-HC1 quite
thoroughly, as well as the 50 Hz PAL-like equivalent model HDR-HC1E.

Do note, however, that these two models were discontinued by Sony some
while ago and were replaced by the HDR-HC3 and HDR-HC3E, although many
people feel that the HDR-HC1/HDR-HC1E were superior products (compared
to the HDR-HC3/HDR-HC3E, that is). In all cases though, since these
were/are bottom-of-the-line models, not too much should be expected of
them.

Please check my (non-commercial) HDV Web page for a list (URL in sig).

You're either thinking of the new prosumer-grade HVR-V1U, one of which
I almost bought the other day in a moment of weakness, or more likely
the consumer-grade HDR-SR1.

The HVR-V1U has a 60 GB hard disk drive (HDD), known as the HVR-DR60,
as an optional, extra-cost, accessory. The HVR-DR60 is external to the
HVR-V1U, connected via an IEEE 1394a cable; it is not built-in. The
HVR-V1U is HDV 1080i 25 Mbps MPEG-2 CBR format but also offers two
progressive-like modes.

The HDR-SR1 has a built-in HDD and is an AVCHD 1080i format product,
recording video with the MPEG-4 Part 10 H.264 AVC codec at a maximum
data rate of 15 Mbps VBR. Like the HDR-HC3, it's a bottom-of-the-line
product, so don't expect too much from it. Also note that at the
present time, there's almost no way to edit AVCHD footage on a
computer because none of the commonly used NLEs have yet been updated
to support the format.

Hope this helped.

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/

"farseer" <farseer@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1167040149.324645.37220@i12g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
the HC1), very easy to use as family camera, always filming in full HD-mode,
fantastic zoom with antishake system. The only problem was to get the film
in full HD on my pc. No software (and Firewire cable) is included by Sony
for HD. I use now Ulead Videostudio 10.
The remaining (small financial ?) problem I have now, is to buy a full HD
monitor, TV or beamer to have the maximum benefit out of my films.

Greetings

farseer wrote:

I have shot with a Sony HVR A1U, which is the prosumer version of the
HC1, for a year now. Both use the same optics and imaging system, so
quality of the video is the same. The A1U is still in production, and
offers some pro features, especially the far superior sound system.

You won't be disappointed with the HC1. As a discontinued unit they are
getting cheap now. I recommend "tweaking" the settings slightly. I
keep it stopped down half a stop, and increase the color gain about 3
notches, and get incredible saturation and quality.

If you want real quality, stay far away from everything except tape.
The hard drives and DVD versions of all cameras use much more
compression. It looks OK coming out of the camera, but when you start
editing, each generation suffers, at least for now.

The HC3 is not a good substitute, no mic input. It's OK for a point
and shoot HD camera, and I like it's small size, and the image quality
is great, but for a "real" camera with great quality and enough manual
settings for the serious amateur, the HC1 is a great camera.

The only thing I don't like is that the HC1 and the A1U only have HD
component output. No HDMI or DVI. Plug it into the newer Sony HD tv's
and guess what, no HD. Sony downgrades the component to standard
definition (SD). Sony has become really paranoid about piracy and it
is affecting their product decisions. The Blu-Ray system can stop
completely and not work unless firmware is updated if you ever, even
accidently, put in a hacked tape. Imagine spending $1,000 for a DVD
player and it stops working completely! Their tv's downgrading to SD
is a real problem. Other brands don't do this.

So, personally, I don't buy anything Sony unless I have to. But their
video cameras are great. I'd also look at Canon. I put my cameras
into underwater housings with electronic controls, so I use Sony's LANC
control system. That's why I'm kind of stuck with their cameras.

Jim McGauhey
Washington State

Very useful comments, thank you all. I am just entering the market for
a new camcorder. All our tv's and dvd's are HD capalble, so i was
hoping for a camcorder that can also record HD quality video. That
said, i am not a pro and so i don't need pro equiptment. I am now
wonderinf if the HC1 is overkill for me? I basically looking for a
good quality video camera that i can use the video and create home
movies and such.

thanks again

Scubajam wrote:

On 26 Dec 2006 10:42:47 -0800, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: HDV Camcorders...>,
"Scubajam" <jmcgauhey@usa.net> wrote:

I've yet to see a camcorder with a DVI output jack, but then I haven't
seem them all.

If this is what you're getting, then a setting on the camcorder and/or
the HDTV is incorrect. Any HDTV, Sony or otherwise, with a
1080i-capable component input should accept the 1080i output of any
Sony HDV camcorder, including the HVR-V1 in progressive modes.

I believe that what they've done is to force people to use the HDTV's
HDMI input jack when feeding in 1080p signals. 1080i input signals
should still work just fine using the component inputs. The idea
behind forcing use of the HDMI input for 1080p signals was so as to be
able to employ HDCP, which isn't available on the component inputs.

I have never tried to put a tape, hacked or otherwise, into an optical
disc player.

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/

On 26 Dec 2006 13:29:37 -0800, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: HDV Camcorders...>,
"farseer" <farseer@optonline.net> wrote:

No pro equipment has been discussed here. For pro, take a look at
HDCAM SR, HDCAM, XDCAM HD, and DVCPRO HD format products.

The HDR-HC1 was a bottom-of-the-line HDV camcorder. The HC3 is a
bottom-of-the-line HDV camcorder. Neither, therefore, _could_ be
overkill. Either pick up a used HDR-HC1 or a new HDR-HC3. Or take a
look at the Canon HV10.

That's my advice if you want to do any computer-based editing
immediately. Else, also consider the HDR-SR1 (AVCHD).

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/

Hi Frank,
first thanks much for your opinion. Is it fair to say that you believe
the HC1, HC3 and SR1 are the best choices for a consumer based HD
Camcorder? Are there another camcorders i should look into that fall
into this category?

One follow up questions regarding thise HD capable camcorders..
-I have read that it is best to stick with tape if i want to edit since
there is no compression. However, I have also read that the above
camcorders actually compress the video onto a tape to allow 1hr worth
of video to fit. If this is true, then why is this any better or worse
than HD cameras that compress to Harddrive or DVD?

thanks again...

Frank wrote:

On 27 Dec 2006 09:45:23 -0800, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: HDV Camcorders...>,
"farseer" <farseer@optonline.net> wrote:

Hello.

You're welcome.

Just, as mentioned, the Canon HV10, which is an HDV-format product,
although if you want to do 720p rather than 1080i video, also look at
JVC's HDV offerings.

It's difficult at this point in time to recommend AVCHD-format
camcorders (such as the HDR-SR1 and its miniDVD-based cousin, the
HDR-UX1) to those who might wish to edit any of their footage because
AVDHD-aware NLEs aren't yet available. Some industrious folks have
published some workarounds, but unless you're willing to sort of jump
through hoops, HDV is the best choice right now.

The only other thing to consider at this point in the way of low-cost,
consumer-grade, high-def acquisition products are the so-called
"digital media camcorders" offered by a number of manufacturers, but
personally I only consider these to be good enough for capturing Web
video, not for television viewing, although others will certainly have
different views on the subject.

Sure.

Whoever wrote that was either referring to something other than HDV or
AVCHD products, or is seriously mistaken. Both AVCHD and HDV are
highly compressed formats, both spatially and temporally.

That's exactly what HDV does. It permits use of 25 Mbps DV tapes and
transports.

The general problem with consumer-grade HDD and DVD camcorders, at
least of the type to which you refer, is that the video is so very
heavily compressed that there's often not much that can be done with
it except to view it. Editing, and subsequent recompression into some
delivery codec, take a heavy toll on the video quality.

Hope this helps.


--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/