I'm trying to digitise some old (1991-1998) S-VHS camcorder tapes. A
few are S-VHS-C originals, but most are S-VHS dubs from the S-VHS-C
originals (since recorded over several times!). All are PAL 4x3.

I'm shocked by the poor quality, but I guess they always looked like
this, and my expectations have increased over the years.

My concern at this stage is to capture them to digital the best that I
can.

I'm using the following equipment:

Panasonic NV-SV121EB deck
S-video output
Time Base Corrector ON (seems to help a little)
Digital NR OFF (hope I can do better in software later)

Dazzle Hollywood DV Bridge capture card
(S-video input)


I'm not convinced either of these devices is optimal for the job, and
would appreciate advice. It's getting hard to find S-VHS decks at all
these days, but if anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears. One
specific problem I have with this deck is that small drop outs aren't
always masked in the way that a "HQ" deck ought to (maybe they were on
the original tapes and copied over? Maybe I am expecting too much from
S-VHS?).

The capture card seems to have some issues. It sometimes drops frames
for no apparent reason, and sometimes manages to capture with the
fields swapped/shifted! When it works, it's OK - the still pause on
the VCR is captured with little moving noise, so it's not introducing
a hideous amount itself.

Still, I think I need to find a better capture card before I capture
40+ 3 hour tapes. I've read about people using miniDV camcorders to
digitise old tapes - is there a cheap, good model with S-Video input
available in the European PAL market? (a lot of our models are/were
crippled to remove inputs).

Or should I use something different for capturing / A>D?

All help / suggestions gratefully received.

Cheers,
David.

2Bdecided wrote:

Look into a Canopus ADVC-110 or a Canopus ADVC-300.
The 300 is a lot more money but has a built-in TBC as well as noise
reduction hardware.

Mike

"Mike Kujbida" <kXuXjXfXaXm@xplornet.com> wrote in message
news:5qhosgF1046n2U1@mid.individual.net...
"Dazzle" hardware has a questionable reputation,
check www.videohelp.com the latest posts seem
to suggest that it can be made to work well, though.

http://www.videohelp.com/capturecard...d-dv-bridge/43

One post claims that it provides the same quality as
the Canopus-100, from VHS captures.

You might want to try it with the deck's NR turned on,
as it could work on the individual analog components of
the video signal that was recorded on the tape. If it
does, it has a major advantage over NR applied later.
Having an S-Video capable deck with NR and TBC,
should provide you a much better signal than many
have to work with, from VHS. Make sure any needed
playback adjustments, like "Tracking" are attended to.

You might also want to see if you can gain access to
the capture hardware's process amp settings to do
color correction and luma adjustment/filtering (including
sharpening) on the analog signal just before it is digitized.
(if your card uses the Philips SAA7114H chip, I can
give you some registry settings, if you need them.)

While the need to edit no longer automatically means that
you should capture to DV-AVI, (you can edit in MPEG
now-a-days), you did say you wanted to try and improve
the quality of the VHS video. For any extensive use of
the filters that are used to try and correct problems with
the video [- after it has been digitized-] DV is the way to
go. There are a vast array of programs, plug-ins, and
filters written for such processing, of DV.

So the question comes down to whether you can get
your "Dazzle" card to produce acceptable DV, if not
then you should look for a better A to DV device.
Again check the "Capture Cards" listing at:
www.videohelp.com

Luck;
Ken

On 21 Nov, 05:50, "Ken Maltby" <kmal...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Thank you for all your helpful advice Ken, and Mike.

Looking closely, the DV bridge seems to be clipping the bright areas
of the video signal, since they appear as clean noiseless patches,
with RGB values of 230,255,255! Even if I can stop it dropping frames,
this is unacceptable.

I see the ADVC-300 has a facility to set levels before A>D. This could
be very useful.

Does anyone know if the ADVC-100/110 also has this feature? It would
be nice to get away with using the cheaper box (both cost a lot!) and
use the TBC in the VCR, but if the levels are going to clip, this
isn't an option.

Cheers,
David.

2Bdecided wrote:

I can't speak to the 300's capabilities but I know that the 100/110 has
no level control. It simply passes through whatever is fed to it (i.e.
feed it a poor signal and that's what you get out of it).
It's strictly a bidirectional analog to firewire converter.
There's also the model 55 (cheaper still) which is one way (analog to
firewire) only.

Mike

"2Bdecided" wrote in...
You have to ask the question *why* is the video clipping?
Is it clipping because your playback VCR is out of adjustment?
Is it clipping because the recording VCR was not set up properly?
Is it clipping because they weren't watching the exposure when
the video was originally shot?

If the video is "blown out" on the tape, there's nothing you
can do to "repair" it after the fact. The information was
clipped and lost forever.

Maybe. I wouldn't bet that it will fix the problem, though.

No. Typically video equipment is calibrated reasonably
close enough that playback clipping is rarely a problem.

Did you mention what the video looks like when you view it
on a good TV screen?

On 21 Nov, 16:05, "Richard Crowley" <rcrow...@xp7rt.net> wrote:
It may well "clip" or saturate on tape in places, but what I'm seeing
seems to be further, and more widespread clipping within the A>D
itself. I say this because it's hard against the max (255) and all the
video noise disappears in that area - it's a 100% pure colour - no
variation. I don't think S-VHS is capable of storing a pure noise-free
colour, even when saturated.

You make a good point though - there could be multiple reasons why
this is happening that have nothing to do with the capture card. I'll
check the output on a scope, and try watching it on a TV. If it's in
spec, I guess I can blame the capture card.

If it's AGC'd relative to the sync pulse amplitude, I'd agree with
you.

No, haven't tried that yet. It'll be my next step. I was hoping to
archive the content once to PC, rather than keep playing the tape, but
I guess I have little choice if I'm going to track down the cause of
this problem.

Cheers,
David.

"2Bdecided" wrote ...
That would have been done at record-time. For playback, it
is pretty much a direct correlation between the FM frequency
recorded on the tape and the proper output voltage level.
The tape medium itself is limiting enough that AGC is not
necessary for playback.

On 21 Nov, 16:05, "Richard Crowley" <rcrow...@xp7rt.net> wrote:

I've found that it looks fine on a CRT TV (probably just as good as it
did 14 years ago), it's much less clipped when recorded via a Sony DVD-
R machine, but that machine captures a really unstable picture with
the Panasonic VCR's TBC off, and drop frames (really!) with the
Panasonic VCR's TBC on.

If only I could be sure that the Panasonic NV-SV121EB and the Canopus
ADVC-300 were going to work well together, I might take the plunge -
it should be possible to get some money back for the ADVC-300
afterwards on eBay, so the overall cost of the project might not be
too great.

Cheers,
David.

"2Bdecided" wrote ...
Or buy one on eBay and then re-sell it. There are several there
right now.
OTOH, for a one-off transfer, might be cheaper to sent it out.

On 26 Nov, 14:50, "Richard Crowley" <rcrow...@xp7rt.net> wrote:
No, I've got about 100 hours to transfer.

eBay UK hadn't automatically widened my search to the USA - visiting
eBay USA shows just how many are available - I'll check shipping!

Cheers,
David.

On 26 Nov, 15:43, 2Bdecided <davidrobin...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote:
So now I learn that the ADVC-300 doesn't allow you to disable all the
noise reduction. I want to do that in software, so the "processed"
ADVC-300 picture won't be ideal. I guess it's an ADVC-110 then?

Cheers,
David.

"2Bdecided" wrote ...
But I thought you were looking at ADVC-300 because you wanted
control over video levels?

Not that I agree that is the proper solution to your problem, BTW.
If you have playback level problems, it is likely due to one of these...

1) The video was recorded clipped. Nothing you can do in
hardware or sofware after the fact to fix this.
2) The playback machine is not working properly. Repair or
replace it.
3) Your current video capture device is not working properly.
Replace it.

PS: Just because your Dazzle board is preforming poorly does
not mean that other (more dependable) equipment won't work
properly. If you say that the picture looks "fine" on a TV screen,
then I would expect that any of the ADVC products would capture
a picture that looks equially good.

Pinnacle may make some good and dependable products.
But from our POV here in this newsgroup, we only hear
from people (like you) complaining about them. OTOH,
there are other products (like Canopus, etc.) that appear to
enjoy a very good reputation.

On 29 Nov, 15:13, "Richard Crowley" <rcrow...@xp7rt.net> wrote:
The general opinion seems to be that the Pinnacle card is rubbish. My
"plan" (changing by the day, hoping Canon tech support forum will
provide guidance!) is to get an ADVC110 - and if the levels or sync
are a problem, to get a proc amp or full-frame TBC as appropriate. I
have other VCRs I can try too. I'm hoping to get away with just the
Canopus device, but we'll see.

Thanks for all your advice Richard.

Cheers,
David.

In article <b2055908-f29b-4953-a247-319e2e01bdbc@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com>, 2Bdecided <davidrobinson@postmaster.co.uk> wrote:
first.

"2Bdecided" <davidrobinson@postmaster.co.uk> wrote in message
news:089a673a-66d7-4a99-b5a0-b82bb92a08f5@b32g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
If you want really good quality transfers look on ebay for an old Fast AV
master capture card and stick it in an old P3 pc with win98se

you will capture the best svhs footage you can possibly do

These cards go for about £5 but were originally about £700 and are pro
quality

you can then transfer the files from the p3 pc to a modern xp machine for
editing and rendering!