OK, as a complete video newbie frustrated in Windows Movie Maker's
limitations (hey, it was free so I tried it out) and looking to get into
something better, I've downloaded the demo of Vegas to check it out. So far
everything seems good (couldn't stand Studio), but I've got a really simple
thing I want to do and I can't seem to figure out how to do it.

Let's say I've captured a video file with three distinct scenes in it. How
can I split that one file into three separate clips in Vegas. I know I can
split the clip on the timeline, but that doesn't let me extract (say) the
middle clip to a Media Bin for later usage, and it also doesn't make the
split permanent (I can still extend clip 1 on the timeline into clip 2's
footage).

Can this be done? Even Movie Maker has a simple "split clip into two clips
at the current frame" button... and I can't see someone trying to manage 100
randomly shot scenes in a video on just the timeline, or manually capturing
100 separate files...

I'm sure I'm just missing something.

- MX

"MowerX" <mowerx@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<DLW7b.215607$_V.165875@news04.bloor.is.net.c able.rogers.com>...
If the footage is captured by Vegas, there are settings to cause it to
creat a new file for every scene. Then each scene can be loaded into
the Media bin.

I gather that you have already worked out that pressing "s"while in
the timeline will split the video file into separate clips.

What you're missing is that the timeline is not the best place to edit
your video file and select the clips you want on the timeline.

On the menu bar select Options and Preferences and in the General tab
check the box against the 10th item down - "Double click on media file
loads into Trimmer instead of tracks". It's not essential to do this
but it prevents you from doubleclicking files into the timeline.

Clear the timeline, and open your file in the Trimmer (it has a tab at
bottom left of screen). You can play your video file in the Trimmer
in the same way as in the timeline. For fine control use the left
and right keyboaord arrow keys will move backwards and forwards. Use
the ALT key with these keys to move frame by frame (watching the
preview windwow and frame count), Use the left quare bracket [ or "i"
to select the first frame you want in your clip then play on to find
the last frame you want, using the same method, then press the right
square bracket ] or"o" to select the last frame. At the bottom of the
Trimmer window there are icons to place the selection either in front
of or after the cursor position in the timeline. You can adjust the
cursor position in the timeline without losing your selection in the
Trimmer.

I think this is the info you need to realise that you should keep your
source files out of the timeline and only put up what you want to use
(and then you can make edits if you wish once you get the hang of it).

You can download the Vegas manual from Sonic Foundry and read more
about the operation of the Trimmer and other features

I hope this helps.

John


On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:54:59 GMT, "MowerX" <mowerx@hotmail.com> wrote:

"John H" <pyrus@REMOVE_THIS_BIT_netspace_AND_THIS_.net.au > wrote in message
news:3us0mvk5pcq671vr6deca6lo8prbut5109@4ax.com...

Thanks much for the information. One last thing - is there any way to manage
or store groups of these "trimmed clips", besides on the timeline?

- MX

"MowerX" <mowerx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8e58b.1$DZ.0@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers .com...
Vegas has excellent media management capabilities.
Read the user manual as mentioned earlier and read
this info
http://www.sonicfoundry.com/Products...FeatureID=6877
which highlights the new
features in version 4. Media management is one of
them discussed in this doc.

Dennis Vogel

"Dennis Vogel@patmedia.net" <dennisvogel@patmedia.net> wrote in message
news:bjqpem$649$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...

After a pile of reading it seems to manage media *files* well, but doesn't
let me create "virtual" clips from a single source file (say an analog
capture) - instead looks like I need to capture each scene individually if I
want to create a library of them.

Just like the DV scene detection in Vegas creates multiple AVI files, rather
than soft pointers to frames within a single master AVI file - I just wish
it would let me do that manually from a single capture session. Ah well,
guess I just need to change my expectations.

- MX

"MowerX" <mowerx@hotmail.com> wrote...

A search of Google will probably return a series of these types of messages
that I posted over the last few months. Generally speaking I got "yelled
at" as if I was somehow hurting Vegas instead of pointing out what would be
a very useful feature.

For what it's worth I too find the lack of an ability to "store" edited
clips in a general library where one could potentially reuse them at will to
be significant. That said I'm not sure that any of the reasonably-priced
NLEs have such a feature but still that doesn't mean it wouldn't be useful.

One thought I had was to start a project that only contained clips stored on
timelines. You can easily start two copies of Vegas and so long as the
source video is in both projects you can drag clips from the timeline of one
and drop them onto the timeline of the other.

Tom

"Tom Leylan" <gee@iamtiredofspam.com> wrote in message
news:Qd78b.104702$ev.20733012@twister.nyc.rr.com.. .
For that matter, you could also use a "muted" track on the timeline to store
edited clips. This track won't play because it's muted, and you can stick
virtual clips up there and even group them in places on the timeline where
you might need them later. Perhaps the next Vegas will have a bin for
virtual/edited clips.

Here's an example where you might need this: You film a wedding with a
single camera and during the speaches there are many pauses and useless
moments where you have a chance to swing around and grab cutaways of the
people sitting at the tables. It would be nice to clip all of these
audience shots out and put them in one place so that you have instant access
to all of them while you are covering up your edits with cutaways. This
sure beats searching through all the footage several times for these shots
every time you need one. Different bins for Bride shots, groom shots,
audience shots etc. could be set up and with one pass, you could grab all of
these bits and throw them in the bins so that they're there when you need
them

Sanman

"Tom Leylan" <gee@iamtiredofspam.com> wrote in message
news:Qd78b.104702$ev.20733012@twister.nyc.rr.com.. .

As someone who has been in the computer industry for 16 years, I'm duly
shocked that something like this isn't yet possible... it just seems logical
to me. So MediaStudio, Premiere, Pinnacle Studio and the like really don't
have this either?

Then I guess what's shocking me so much is that this is standard behavior in
the otherwise crappy "Windows Movie Maker". Yes, it can manage multiple
files, but it also supports soft linking just for this sort of thing. When
you do a single DV capture, instead of capturing separate files for each
scene it captures one big file and creates soft pointers to each scene.

What's more interesting is that when I import a DV AVI file captured in
Vegas into Windows Movie Maker - a file that Vegas processed into a single
scene (in reality it's 5), Movie Maker managed to automatically detect and
separate all 5 scenes apart for my easy perusal. I can later split the
scenes even finer, or combine multiple scenes back together.

Now, please don't tell me that I'm asking to much for a $500+ program to at
least have some of the basic functionality of a $0 giveaway program. Now I'm
not saying that Movie Maker is good - far from it, I've outgrown it after
just two 3 minute projects - but I do think it's got some definite good
points in how it processes and manages clips.

- MX

"Sanman" <me@you.com> wrote...

Hi Sanman,

It is certainly an alternative but muted or not the timeline isn't the place
to store them. You really don't want to see them all the time and you sure
don't want them laid out horizontally. You can't find them on the timeline.
Somebody might want to take a look at the "markers" in Vegas also. They
mark spots on the timeline not events, they're numbered and there aren't
many of them.

Or you make videos and you want to access your library of "sports shots" or
"politicians" or "musicians" or "scenes from New York City" or anything else
you've collected. Short of physically cutting up the footage there is no
way to do it.

Somebody can look up my suggestion for comprehensive "notes" which should be
available at the project, the track and the event level if possible. But if
no where else there should certainly be a note repository attached to
project. You could keep track of the time you spent on things, what you
did, things you still need to do, settings and such you want to remember
that you may need to be re-apply to various things.

Of course one can use notepad but "notepad" isn't a feature of Vegas and
something that organized video projects on a business level "is." That adds
value, value translates into good reviews and good reviews leads to industry
acceptance and sales.

Tom

"MowerX" <mowerx@hotmail.com> wrote...

I can't say for certain but I'm pretty sure, not.

This should be the thread on "notes"
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ter.nyc.rr.com

This should be the thread on "working with references"
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...r.nyc.rr.c om

That one didn't go over with folks so well either. I suggested that I
should be able to have a single clip referenced in multiple places on the
timeline such that if I edited one they all changed accordingly. I develop
business applications I can't help but think about productivity tools.

There is an advantage to having been developed "recently" in comparison to
legacy products. You find that all over the place. If you don't have an
established user base you aren't breaking the "mold" by introducing
something new. I've seen customers gripe about "new features" added to a
compiler because it was a) different and b) something they didn't
understand. It didn't matter if it was "better" as defined by professionals
everywhere.

Vegas should be able to do the scene detection I haven't tried it. And I
seriously like Vegas but that doesn't mean it can't be improved. The thing
I can't seem to get across (if anybody wants to consider this) is that I'm
not asking for something that is ridiculously cutting edge, they are
straightforward ideas and in most cases optional. If you could add project
notes you wouldn't be forced to add them, you can ignore it if you want to.

Oh I mentioned the concept of "named clips" in one of those threads...
everything is like pulling teeth. :-) You can't name the clips on the
timeline something meaningful and you sure can't document what event it was
shot at or who the people in the clip are.

Tom

"Tom Leylan" <gee@iamtiredofspam.com> wrote in message
news:itd8b.108719$Sq.20934849@twister.nyc.rr.com.. .


That's the thing... none of what I'm looking for would disturb how the
program currently works. Use them, don't use them - it'd be completely
optional. I think adding support for "virtual scenes" would be a great idea
for Vegas, especially if nothing else in this price range has them yet.

- MX

Gets my vote also. But it's not going to see the light of day from this NG.
Tom, ya want to go ahead and make a feature request for this?

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/support/...suggestion.asp

Craig H.

"HighPeaksVideo" <highpeaksvideo@aol.com> wrote...

Hi Craig,

I'm writing things down and eventually I'll try to get it in through some
other method. I'll phone them and ask who to talk to. You can see how so
much gets lost in the translation in newsgroups.

"HighPeaksVideo" <highpeaksvideo@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030912195336.18495.00001129@mb-m13.aol.com...
Done deal

Sanman

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:07:02 GMT, "MowerX" <mowerx@hotmail.com> wrote:

I haven't read all of this thread in detail, but it seems to me all you
have to do is selectively render the portion that you want to have
saved. When you render it, it creates a new avi file for the portion
that was rendered.

The notion of Vegas and most NLE programs is to not alter the original
material during the editing process. If you want a portion to come out
in its own file I think you have to render it. You can select a portion
of the timeline, and use tools - 'render to a new track' to create the
file. If you render to an avi you should not loose quality. Select the
same audio and video properties (custom button in the dialog) to get the
fastest output.

This method will also allow exporting a portion that has been edited
(cuts, fx, etc.) to its own file for future use. Don't render using a
compressed format if you want to use it later as an input or you will
reduce the quality.

"xray" <notreally@hotmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:u196mvkflkrt0hpf8i6vnner5sie2j5ees@4ax.com...
Having its own file isn't the goal - but having a quick way to access
specific areas in a file would be. Sort of like a table of contents for a
huge book - it's the ultimate way to "break up" a large file WITHOUT
altering the original file in any way.

- MX

"xray" <notreally@hotmail.invalid> wrote...

I don't think people don't know how to work around limitations. Seriously
there is almost no feature in a software product that (were it removed) we
couldn't find some way to get similar results. The real point is that it
doesn't end there.

Nobody who creates videos using lots of archival footage wants to drag 200+
clips into a project either. That is "if it can be avoided" if it can't be
done any other way then that's the way we would do it. The real, real point
is that if Premier (or some other package) added a library feature then it
would turn some people from Vegas. Not everybody is choosing to back a
"product" they are simply trying to get work done.

Have you tried adding markers to a longer file 'm' which you can name. You
can name these markers & then jump to the next marker at any time in the
future. If you are using version 4 of Vegas you can also find scenes by
dragging the rate controller to the right & this will allow you to see your
video at up to 20 times faster during playback.

"MowerX" <mowerx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZZK8b.18091$Rm1.17737@news02.bloor.is.net.cab le.rogers.com...

"Click" <click@XXXoptusnet.com.au> wrote...

I'm a novice but I will try to explain...

1) There is a 10 marker maximum
2) They are assigned to the timeline not a video event
3) Naming the marker doesn't change the fact that you locate them by
"number"
4) If you use 10 markers to point at 10 pieces of stock footage you have
zero markers left for anything else
5) If you have 3 video tracks you still only have 10 markers

and as for scrubbing through the footage

6) We don't want to "watch" our way to an absolute piece of footage

When they finally add a pop-up window that lists all the marked media (and
the media itself is marked) alphabetically by the "name" keyed in you can
just refuse to use it but the rest of us will say "well that's a start." :-)
And when Premiere adds the ability to catalog clips you can listen to "we
used to use Vegas but they added a whole bunch of new productivity features
so we reluctantly switched."

I've got a question though why have "save" save the entire movie... you
could just click on save and then hold the scrubber down and save it that
way? Who cares if it is slower, limited and prone to error? And when
somebody suggested "markers" did a bunch of people suggest jotting frame
counts on a piece of paper as a perfectly good alternative?

I'm serious is every relatively good idea going to be met with "we like the
limitations"? I really want to play the game but I don't understand the
rules.