Given the ethical behaivour thread, I'd like some advice please.

I mostly design for print and have started designing small websites too.

With new clients, I have a verbal agreement that I don't hand over the print
work to the printers until I get paid. Most of my clients are repeat
clients - once I've seen that they are regular bill payers I have 30 days
terms.

All my web clients so far have also been print clients so I've known that
they would pay.
For new ones, I suppose I could not upload the site until payment.

Both ways, I lose my time if payment is refused, but at least the client
doesn't get the job for free.

However, I'd like to write up some kind of contract for new web clients, and
I don't know where to start. Is there a "standard" contract that I can
amend? Do I need to get a lawyer type person to draw one up? Could it just
be something as simple as "My Company will do X work for Your Company for £X
to be paid by X date and signed by both parties?"

Should I be using a contract for print clients as well?

Thanks
Ruth

It can be a simple contract, no need to ask for a lawyer. Just include necessary items and you're
set.

--
Charles.

Hi Ruth,

YES, you should be using a contract for all clients, be they print or web.
The contracts are essentially the same for either, right up until the point
of "printing" or "uploading."

Don't fall into the trap of financing your clients. They don't need that
service. Always collect a nonrefundable deposit for every medium to large
job. Collect interim payments as the job progresses. You may end up with a
little to bill at the end, but it's a little, not the mother lode. This
isn't because you don't trust your client (although maybe....), but because
it keeps your business healthy and your cash flow up. On small jobs for
strangers get 100% up front.

When you work this way, it completely eliminates any concern over whether
they're credit-worthy or whether they'll pay on time.

Dan
http://www.FreelanceWorkshops.com




"Ruth" <NewsgroupRuthNoSpAm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bp29qq$cqv$1@hercules.btinternet.com...

Just this last week, I had one of my clients cancel a job I was working on.
They changed their mind on the direction they wanted to take their business
and it removed all need for my services (at least on that project).

Thanks to my contract, and the deposit I took up-front, I came away with 1/3
of the total job in my bank. It was a fair compensation for the amount of
work I'd done so far.


If I hadn't had a contract or deposit, I'm sure I would've just had a 'bad
news' phone call. This way, I got paid *and* the client was more than happy
with the arrangement because it was spelled out in the contract.


---
Dave.


"Dan" <Dan@FreelanceWorkshops.com> wrote in message
newsH9tb.257039$0v4.17358077@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Great example. One of the things a good contract does is spell out the terms
of the divorce. The client is always free to change his mind, his designers
or his business; just not at our expense.

Dan
http://www.FreelanceWorkshops.com



"O H D" <design(pants)@oakhousedesign.com> wrote in message
news:Nvatb.4544$pF1.3003@news04.bloor.is.net.cable .rogers.com...

All of my work is 50% up front, 50% before final delivery, with a contract
stating that any changes in scope will be billed at an inflated hourly rate.
Never had a complaint, and I always get paid.

"Ruth" <NewsgroupRuthNoSpAm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bp29qq$cqv$1@hercules.btinternet.com...

Ruth -

ALWAYS use a contract. Some good published resources with
explanations, or examples of contracts, include:

Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing and Ethical Guidelines

AIGA Professional Practices in Graphic Design

Graphic Designer's Guide to Pricing, Estimating & Budgeting, by Theo
Stephan Williams

The Streetwise Guide to Freelance Design and Illustration

The Business of Graphic Design, by Ed Gold

The Business Side of Creativity, by Cameron Foote

The Creative Business Guide to Running a Graphic Design Business , by
Cameron S. Foote

Selling Graphic Design, by Don Sparkman

Business and Legal Forms for Graphic Designers, by Tad Crawford and
Eva Doman Bruck

The last book listed includes a CD of many business forms that may be
very useful to you.

Good luck! - Jeff


Jeff Fisher
Engineer of Creative Identity

Jeff Fisher LogoMotives
http://www.jfisherlogomotives.com

In article <nfctb.10797$Mm.329@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, "J-Dogg"
<j-dogg@quitspammingme.net> wrote:



here's a question for you all.

lets say you have a job that you dont know how long it will take and
therefor the final cost of the job is unknown. how do you calculate what
you'll bill the client as an upfront payment to start?

I never get into situations like that. I have a select few long-term
clients that I don't quote up front, they don't ask, I don't ask for a
deposit, and they're always happy but that's only because I've been working
with them for so long and we all know exactly where we stand. If I need to
take an upfront payment I'm damn sure I know how much the job will cost
before I start. You're just asking for trouble if you don't.

If it's a situation whereby there really is no way of telling (and I can't
think of one off hand), I'd work from the most likely scenario and then
revise the proposal, asking for more money if necessary, as you go along.

---
Dave.

Truly unknown parameters call for an up-front retainer. This buys the client
a finite amount of time, either hours or a specific date. The client can
renew/replenish the retainer until the project is completed.

Or, work in phases. You can probably define phase one and two and hang price
tags on them. Collect deposits and payments at appropriate intervals. As you
and the client move forward, phase three and phase four become defined, and
so on. Collect deposits and payments until complete.

I have a friend who paints interior murals in upscale homes. He hates
complicated pricing structures, hates estimating, and isn't big on getting
things in writing. His price: "$6000 per month and I don't know how long it
will take me." A true artist. People love him.

Dan
http://www.FreelanceWorkshops.com




"woodsie" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:none-1511031527000001@mebax15-a157.dialup.optusnet.com.au...

In article <bp29qq$cqv$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, "Ruth"
<NewsgroupRuthNoSpAm@hotmail.com> writes:

___ __
\ / | / \ |
\ / |__ \ __ |
| | \ |
| |___ \__/ o

Michael Dion
MDGraphics
www.mdgraphics.com

I agree with all other posters here. The contract is an unavoidable,
unquestionable statement of agreement between both parties. It not only
binds the client to pay but also the designer to complete the work
requested. It's a win-win. No contract and you can expect to end up with an
expensive battle in court in which you will hear that "verbal contracts" are
hard to prove...

Graphic Artist's Guild has a great contract template that I use. It also
outlines who owns the rights to the work when it's completed, which comes in
handy when the client needs your services again in the future. If you give
up all the files, you give up much of a chance of working with that client
again on that project. Bill for that kind of a transfer.

With websites, if you post it and there's a problem, just wipe the data from
the URL and tell the server host to change the password till the company
pays up/settles its agreement with you.


--

Nathaniel
please reply to: nat at flikworld(dot)com
or reply to this newsgroup




in article bp29qq$cqv$1@hercules.btinternet.com, Ruth at
NewsgroupRuthNoSpAm@hotmail.com wrote on 11/14/03 2:12 AM:

Let me amend my own post by saying that you must restore the site to it's
original state. Don't take their site hostage as this will be viewed
negatively from a professional and legal sense.


in article BBDB9919.5E1C%nat@flikworld.com, Nathaniel Flick at
nat@flikworld.com wrote on 11/15/03 8:51 AM:

I agree with Dave, you have to come up with scenarios. It really boils down
to project management, and knowing your own limitations: if you don't know
the answer, find someone who knows the right questions to ask, and take them
with you to ask those questions. Its amazing what a dozen bagels buys you in
terms of solid data from a bunch of developers. (Don't try this trick with
marketing departments; advertisers will try to steal the jobs.)

Case in point: we just pitched a large city web site. We interviewed other
development teams from successful city web sites, found out what hassles
they had, what hardware they used, how they treated internal clients,
everything. Then we interviewed their vendors, got different price
structures, and came up with five different scenarios from $25,000 to
$250,000, with case studies, and made it very clear what parts of the pitch
were from our experience, and what parts were from the interview.

"O H D" <design(pants)@oakhousedesign.com> wrote in message
news:lcitb.8749$pF1.5716@news04.bloor.is.net.cable .rogers.com...

<snip>

</snip>