- Hey Spacey, Have You Tried This?
- Posted by Onideus Mad Hatter on July 26th, 2007
Check it out:
http://www.neopets.com/games/play.phtml?game_id=877
It uses an ActiveX plugin called 3D Life Player by Virtools. Pretty
slick stuff. I'm wondering if and when Flash will take the leap into
3D content.
The interesting thing is that since Neopets is starting to use it for
their games...well that basically equates to MILLIONS of users
worldwide who will install the plugin, making it a fairly viable
option as far as web content.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."
"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
- Posted by SpaceGirl on July 26th, 2007
Onideus Mad Hatter wrote:
There's a really good 3D api we're playing with right now for Flash
(PaperVision3D) that doens't require a plug in. You should check it out.
I can't runthe neopets thing as it requires ActiveX, and I'm one of the
10% of people on an Apple. And don't forget the 50% of people in Europe
who don't use IE any more... plus Neopets is not actually that popular.
1 million is a tiny drop in the ocean when it comes to the 800 million
web users out there... If they're serious, they need to come up with a
FireFox version as people are becoming more cautious about downloading
"new" plugins.
Neopets isn't that popular (it's so yesterday!) 
I will try it at the studio where we have a PC!
--
x theSpaceGirl (miranda)
http://www.northleithmill.com
-.-
Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com
- Posted by Chaddy2222 on July 26th, 2007
On Jul 26, 5:56 pm, SpaceGirl <nothespacegirls...@subhuman.net> wrote:
to install plug-ins anymore. I am not sure on the 50% figgure for non
IE users, but I would not be shocked by that as many people are not
happy with IE7 and want what it has to offer but need a better browser
(they notice that FF have been doing what IE now does for years and
have swiched).
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.awardspace.biz
- Posted by Fred Doyle on July 26th, 2007
"Chaddy2222" <spamlovermailbox-sicurity@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
On our site, in the US, with about 1.7 million visitor (12% international)
in the last 6 weeks, we saw 72% IE (45% of total visits in IE 6, 26% of
total visits IE 7, 1% IE 5), 18% Firefox, 3.5% Safari, the rest in mostly
other Mozilla based browsers. So although we have a higher percent of
Firefox visitors than the norm in theUS, adoption of IE 7 is outpacing
adoption of Firefox.
Windows OS accounts for 89% of visits (including 25,000 visitors using
Windows 98 and 514 visitors still using Windows 95), BTW, Mac about 4.5%,
all flavors of Linux is about .5%.
Does it show I've been analyzing stats in preparation for a site redesign?
;-)
Fred Doyle
- Posted by SpaceGirl on July 26th, 2007
Chaddy2222 wrote:
Given between 5-10% of European users are using Opera or Safari, and
then this:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...1/article.html
I think 40-50% isn't far off the mark for Europe. Our own stats on our
EU servers suggest around 35% non-IE, and growing.
I dislike Fx's sluggish rendering, but generally it is faster than IE in
my experience. But then, I don't have a PC, so don't get to use it THAT
often
--
x theSpaceGirl (miranda)
http://www.northleithmill.com
-.-
Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com
- Posted by SpaceGirl on July 26th, 2007
Fred Doyle wrote:
Hehhe. We're launching one HUGE site in January and have gone down the
100% Flash 9 route 
We looked at the server stats and decided we
didn't care. Our product is great! People will upgrade :P
--
x theSpaceGirl (miranda)
http://www.northleithmill.com
-.-
Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com
- Posted by Fred Doyle on July 26th, 2007
"SpaceGirl" <nothespacegirlspam@subhuman.net> wrote
I'd love to be in that position, but we've got very different market
considerations, including government accessibility requirements. We've got
such a broad set of contituents it is amazing. No other market is really
like this one.
Fred Doyle
- Posted by SpaceGirl on July 26th, 2007
Fred Doyle wrote:
We've done work for the government before, so I know what you mean 
The downside of all this Flashy stuff is it's untried, and very new, and
we're having to learn like crazy
--
x theSpaceGirl (miranda)
http://www.northleithmill.com
-.-
Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com
- Posted by Onideus Mad Hatter on July 26th, 2007
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:16:15 +0100, SpaceGirl
<nothespacegirlspam@subhuman.net> wrote:
Some browsers use different engines on different operating systems.
For example IE6 on Windows uses Trident but IE on the Mac uses Tasman.
On Windows IE6 is faster in just about every respect to Firefox expect
for javascript rendering, however all the benchmarks done have failed
to take into account the curve of lag that results from having
multiple browser instances running simultaneously. If you open
Firefox with say a couple dozen tabs...it is just shit fuckin slow.
Where as if you run a few dozen instances of IE...meh...no real
difference in speed/rendering.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."
"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
- Posted by SpaceGirl on July 27th, 2007
Onideus Mad Hatter wrote:
On the other hand if you open multiple FireFox's, they're all fast. So
it's all relative stuff, but I take your point.
Single window Fx vs single window IE7 and Fx will usually out perform in
all rendering.
Also IE hasn't been updated for MacOS in about 6 years, and won't even
run on Intel Mac On a Mac, Safari is the faster browser, followed by
Opera then FireFox. But I like the flexibility of FireFox, and the fact
that it is identical (same renderer) on all platforms. If something
works in Fx on my Mac, you can be 99.9% sure it'll work on anything that
can run that version of Fx.
On thing Fx is VERY VERY bad at is how it handles Flash. Whether this is
a Flash or FireFox fault I dont know, but you only need to open a couple
of full screen Flash 9 movies in Fx tabs and watch Fx start to become
really sluggish. This just doesn't happen with IE7 on my testbed machine
(which is a fraction of the speed of my dev machine). I really open that
either Adobe or Mozilla fix this issue in Fx 3.
--
x theSpaceGirl (miranda)
http://www.northleithmill.com
-.-
Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com
- Posted by Chaddy2222 on July 27th, 2007
On Jul 27, 3:12 am, "Fred Doyle" <fdoy...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Fred, you have a lot of time on your hands obviously. But the stats on
IE7 were interesting. I must say all my sites now use XHTML1.0 strict
code with CSS, I like the mark-up and all decent modern browsers
handle it fine, a part from IE7, it also works fine with
Screenreaders, such as Jaws. On IE5.5 and below, I would not bother
supporting them really as only a small percentage use it + it's CSS
support is not that grea.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.awardspace.biz
- Posted by Toby A Inkster on July 27th, 2007
Onideus Mad Hatter wrote:
IE/win and IE/mac are effectively two different browsers. I seem to
remember that IE4/mac was based on IE4/win, but IE5/mac was a rewrite from
scratch: the only thing it shares with IE/win is the name.
If we count IE/win and IE/mac as two different browsers, then it's safe
to say that each cross-platform browser use the same rendering engine on
every supported platform.
However, same rendering engine does not necessarily equal same results.
HTML rendering engines often wrap around OS-specific font rendering and
form controls.
--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.12-12mdksmp, up 36 days, 15:36.]
Cryptography Challenge
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2007/0...pto-challenge/
- Posted by Fred Doyle on July 27th, 2007
"Chaddy2222" <spamlovermailbox-sicurity@yahoo.com.au> wrote
Not a lot of time on my hands, but a really, really good stats package.
We are using an XHTML Transitional doctype in all new pages. We tried
working with a strict doctype but we've got a lot of content developers,
putting pages up in a lot of ways and without support for some of the
presentation attributes and elements that are being eliminated ultimately,
it would have been leftup to us to explain what content developers could use
and not use. Not a pretty picture when you've got 100's of content
developers with 100's of different skilll levels, using a dozen different
tools to create pages within our current brand.
And that's why I never need reminding of why I need to push so hard to move
us to an enterprise-level CMS system and get HTML coding out of the hands of
the content developers.
Fred Doyle
- Posted by Onideus Mad Hatter on July 27th, 2007
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:33:46 -0700, Chaddy2222
<spamlovermailbox-sicurity@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Probably wrong though, did they say whether they were using a 64 bit
processor or not? Cause that'd make a difference.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."
"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
- Posted by Fred Doyle on July 27th, 2007
"Onideus Mad Hatter" <usenet@backwater-productions.net> wrote
My understanding is that the stats package does look at the post-platform
tokens, if available, in making the browser and platform determination, i.e.
the WIN64, WOW 64 tokens. I believe it does this in the log file analysis,
and I'm certain it does it when using js to drop a first party cookie. I
sure there's an error rate to that, especially in log file analysis, but
there's a high variance in all this
Fred Doyle
- Posted by Chaddy2222 on July 29th, 2007
Fred Doyle wrote:
having trouble spelling the word "good" in my last post. I did not
even pick that up till I read it yesterday.
But yeah a CMS sounds like it would be good for you, or maybe just get
all developers to use the same software (KompoZer is good, it's the
unofficial bug fix for NVU). http://www.kompozer.net
I must say though that XHTML served as text/html works fine in IE6 and
7, but eventually I will probly eather move back to useing 4.01
strict or use XHTML served in it's proper form, as XHTML+XML.
I will see what happens, but I would not use XHTML transitional in any
form as it's just plain wrong! in my oppinion.
coded.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.awardspace.biz
- Posted by Chaddy2222 on July 29th, 2007
SpaceGirl wrote:
Hmmm but yes you do notice Firefox rendering stuff such as Flash video
quite slowly (but then again) I am sure that broadband speed would
make a difference. But that's probably stateing the obvious.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.awardspace.biz
- Posted by Onideus Mad Hatter on July 29th, 2007
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 21:05:08 -0700, Chaddy2222
<spamlovermailbox-sicurity@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Um...you uh...you *DO* understand that the W3C's RECOMMENDED
"standards" in NO WAY equate to cross compatibility...you know, since
no browser maker on the planet actually adheres to ALL of the W3C's
RECOMMENDATIONS. And all it takes is ONE to throw the whole concept
in the garbage.
The W3C's doc types are meant more as general guidelines than
anything, they try to promote good programming practices, but really,
if you're going to use an HTML based code you need to actually check
and make sure that each element not only works on ALL major browsers
but that it also works on ALL major browsers on ALL major operating
systems...of course, why bother with that stupidity when you can
simply code your sites in Flash, which takes all the guess work out of
it.
As I've said before, even for just a plain text site Flash is VASTLY
superior to HTML in that you get proper font anti-aliasing, you can
embed fonts and you can make use of liquid sizable text rather than
just liquid space stretched text.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."
"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
- Posted by Onideus Mad Hatter on July 29th, 2007
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 21:13:13 -0700, Chaddy2222
<spamlovermailbox-sicurity@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
*checks your site*
http://freewebdesign.awardspace.biz
....your websites look like ass...OLD ass...I just want you to know
that.
*checks your code*
Oh, this is part of the problem:
: <meta name="generator" content="HTML Tidy for Windows (vers 1st July 2004), see www.w3.org" />
I guess you can't code, huh? HTML generators...LOL...how quaint. ^_^
Oh, btw, your sites are also terribly bloated given the sparse content
and lack of a design...and why the fuck are you using PHP? Further,
why do you even have more than one page? Has the concept of dynamic
content completely skipped you? Or is that just too far ahead of the
antediluvian time frame you seem to be designing around? Seriously,
your sites look like somebody hit the button on the fuckin Wayback
machine. *rolls eyes*
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."
"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
- Posted by Chaddy2222 on July 29th, 2007
On Jul 29, 2:31 pm, Onideus Mad Hatter <use...@backwater-
productions.net> wrote:
updated that offen, although I update the content every few months.
As for being "bloated" I am working on the CSS to make it less so and
the HTML should not be bloated at all, + I will soon be giving the
main site a complete re-design. The re-design will use as little code
as possible (well enough to make it work correctly obviously.)
BTW, the site does look a little better in FF then IE.
Also, as for your own site I can't access any of the content (eg read
any of it) with my screen reader.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.awardspace.biz
