I contacted a web disigner I found online with my requirements. I
showed them a sample website that I liked a lot and told them I wanted
the same (or very similar) layout and I wanted CSS menus. The price
seemed fair, $500 for 10 pages, including flash banner, submission
form, a fixed number of free updates, etc. He wanted 50% up front to
get started and wanted me to fill out several forms. Since I was not
looking for an original design and I had sent him links to the site I
wanted mine to look like I was not comfortable with sending 50% of the
money without something in writing from him indicating he understood
my request and would provide me with a site that looked like (insert
screenshot, and technical information). I never heard from the
designer again after sending this email. I do not think it is fair
that I should fill out foms and send 50% before receiving something in
writing from the desinger that indicates we are in agreement regarding
expectations. Can someone tell me what the correct approach is?

Thanks

On Jun 18, 3:34*am, Ned <1crazyri...@gmail.com> wrote:
It is not unreasonable for you to expect something in writing. Maybe
that is what the forms were for, a copy for you and one for the
designer.

Ned wrote:
Knowing only what you have written here, it doesn't sound like you are
unreasonable. I don't know what weer int he "forms" you were asked to
fill out, so the designer may have felt like some of what you were
asking was duplicating what was there. 50% up front is not unreasonable.
Some kind of mutually acceptable written understanding between you and
the designer would protect both you and the designer in the long run and
is a good idea in my opinion.

However, I would say that it was highly unprofessional for the designer
not contact you in any way and explain his/her position.

I am a little concerned about the "professional" quality of the designer
you picked as a whole. To be honest, you got a GREAT deal. $500 for 10
pages, flash banner, submission form and some free updates is a great
price, and not likely to be a living wage in my opinion.

Despite the fact that you have defined the look of the site, some level
of HTML and CSS custom coding will be required. The Flash will take some
time as well. Browser testing, etc always takes time. Free updates,
even in a fixed number will take time. A minimal hourly rate is probably
close to $50/hr when you consider the cost of overhead (lease, heat,
electricity, phones), hardware and software depreciation, insurances,
bookkeeping and legal requirements, taxes, etc. All of these are
necessary for a "professional" business.

IMHO, it sounds like you are getting an extreme bargain. Perhaps that
explains some of the less than professional standards your designer has
displayed.

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 02:34:18 -0700 (PDT), Ned <1crazyrican@gmail.com>
wrote:

Don't ASSume, you have no idea why he hasn't contacted you, it's
possible he lives in an area that was hit by some kind of natural
disaster, or it's possible he had some kind of family crisis, hell he
could even be dead for all you know! It's also possible that he
didn't get your message, it could have been picked up by spam filters
and accidentally deleted or just lost in the shuffle of messages. Did
you ever try contacting him again? Or did you simply send one message
and then decided he wasn't ever going to reply? Don't ever ASSume
online, it makes you look stupid.

Further, he may have backed out for fear of being entrapped, thinking
that you were someone who was trying to make him, essentially, steal
someone else's work, at which point he would become legally liable for
it, especially if you wanted him to sign papers basically ADMITTING to
stealing other people's work.

You can't just see a design you like online and then copy it like it's
a cheap photograph, it doesn't work that way, whoever made that
design, THEY OWN IT, it's copyrighted to them...and if someone liak
you goes and rips it off...yeah, they can sue you, Cupcake. You can
ask for something SIMILAR, something REVERSE ENGINEERED, but you
CANNOT ask for the SAME design, because at that point you're asking
someone to steal what isn't theirs.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

"Ned" <1crazyrican@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a64fccb-d08d-4c85-a683-a54d37769d93@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
All good points already mentioned.

$500 is bargain basement and I agree, this amount probably will reflect the
type of professionalism (or lack of) in this buisness relationship.

If the forms/paperwork aren't satisfactory to you (regarding the
understanding of what you want), call the designer and request that this be
added. However, as a designer myself, I wouldn't bother changing my forms or
creating a new form for you, not for a job worth $500. For a job worth
$5,000, yes I would.

And to be totally honest - I'm not surprised the designer hasn't contacted
you again. You want something copied almost exact and you won't pay a measly
$250 to get the job started. That just rings alarm bells to me and I'd walk
away from the job too.

Helen