Anyone here know the geography of the VT campuses? I have a friend who
works here:
Edward Via Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine
Blacksburg, VA

I'm hoping this is a completely separate area from the shootings.

inez

"inez" <nezmyth@or.fact> wrote in message news:f00bvb$ghu$1@aioe.org...

From the NY Times story, "There were two shootings on the campus in
Blacksburg, Va., and in each case fatalities with "multiple shooting
victims," he said."

Fred Doyle wrote:

Fred Doyle wrote:
I've received an e-mail from my friend. He's alright, his campus is a
half-mile away from it. He said he has sent his 3rd & 4th year med
students to the hospital to assist however they can.


i

On Apr 16, 8:16 pm, Henry Schmidt <schmi...@nottelling.nope> wrote:
Something about American culture, actually. Lives are worth less than
the right to carry a weapon, even if it's the lives of their children.
Even horrific events like this wont change anything. We'll be reading
about the next one of these in a few years time and again and again.
Eventually they will turn campus like this into prison camps with
unbearable security, and kids will STILL die. How can a modern country
be so fucking stupid.

On Apr 17, 2:19 am, SpaceGirl <nothespacegirls...@subhuman.net> wrote:
Yeah, you're right. Us American's hold the monopoly on killing one
another. Nevermind the Middle Eastern rape gangs, or the murder of
little girls of they're suspected of not being virgins. Nevermind the
years of conflict in Ireland over religious beliefs. Nevermind the
slavery, torture and murder that ran rampant in Africa for diamonds.
Nevermind the killing of baby girls in China because they suffer the
birth defect of having not been born male. Nevermind the gassing of
subways in Japan. Nevermind the blowing up of, well, practically
anything that seems like a worthwhile target just about anywhere in
Europe (because if you can't legally own a gun, a pipe bomb is just
dandy easy to make).

But just go ahead and single out the United States as the sole
purveyor of violence and stupid if that makes you sleep better at
night.

I think this event is a tragedy, but by the small bits of evidence
that are currently coming out about all of this, I don't think an
overly simplistic, reactionary and uninformed mindset about how "our
weapons must be more important" is in any way useful or justified. If
this act turns out to have been as planned as current evidence seems
to suggest, do you really think that an inability to buy a couple of
handguns would have stopped this kid? He was motivated to kill people
-- THAT'S the issue here, not the means used. And that mindset is not
unique to the United States. It isn't this country that's stupid.
This whole planet is in trouble. We just report it more incessantly.

-- Robert

"SpaceGirl" wrote


Thanks for proving that being 'fucking stupid' isn't exclusive to 'a modern
country'...

__Gem

SpaceGirl wrote:

Yes, something about our culture. I'm certainly not smart or wise enough
to have any answers, or even all the questions. I have to believe it's
much more than guns though. It seems to me that, especially with our
children and young adults, so many have little empathy and even less a
sense of personal responsibility. Their self worth seems all tied up
with "things" and the perceptions of others. They act without
considering the consequences for those they affect or for themselves.
It's a culture of instant gratification, superficiality, artificial
superiority and entitlement. They immediately turn to external sources
for answers, to fulfill their needs. And while we are gaining the
vocabulary of understanding learning/emotional/mental disorders and
illness, the stigma remains. Such problems are still viewed as a
weakness that lessens the value an individual in our society. We label
people and their illness (or other situation) is who they are. Then our
health care system and pharmaceutical companies exploit the illnesses
over concentrating on helping each individual become their healthy
selves. Our problems become trading cards for our courts, clergy and
politicians.

When it comes to learning institutions; these become condensed societies
in their own right. More than just peer pressure, everything is about
evaluation and measuring up, and everything becomes magnified in this
microcosm. Plus, in high school and college, kids begin to see real life
and real responsibility looming in the future. I wonder what they see? I
know it would probably scare the crap out of me.

Look at our "reality" shows like Survivor, then please explain to me
what America values, because I don't get it. American Idol?...IDOL?!
Fame. Fame seems to be the goal for so many. Our mass murderers don't
even have a message, aren't 'making a statement' anymore. They just want
their fame. The media knows it, states it, then perpetuates it, giving
them just what they wanted.

No, I don't get it. America forgets that it's a culture in its infancy.
We've only had the one civil war, after all. I, for one, have seriously
begun to wonder how democracy and capitalism can ever work together. But
I have always been antisocial, so...

But none of this may have anything to do with this guy. Having been a
native South Korean, I don't know how long he's been exposed to our disease.

While I wrote this we had a special news report. In a small community
here in Louisiana a man handed a note to a student containing threats
and referring to VT. The high school and junior high are both in lock
down and the man's been arrested. A local 53-yr. old who has had several
arrests. So it goes...

<end rant>
inez

On Apr 17, 11:27 am, inez <nezm...@or.fact> wrote:
Inez, I don't want to deflate your rant, but you do realize that both
of the shows you cited did NOT originate in the US, don't you? They
are imports.

So, once again, it ain't just the US.

-- Robert

fsdstudio@gmail.com wrote:

Oh, I don't think it's just the US. But how can we deal with the world
if we can't deal with ourselves. Kinda the 'physician, heal thyself'
sort of thing. Personally, I think all humans are the cancer of the
Earth, and the Earth will purge us if we don't do it ourselves. But,
that's just antisocial me

I remember something about the shows starting elsewhere, but they
wouldn't thrive here if our populous didn't crave it, would they? They
generate obscene amounts of money. Who started what (to me) is
irrelevant, and frankly, more of the same. I just don't feel I can speak
to other countries that much because I have no personal knowledge of
them. I obviously don't understand my own.

inez

Gem wrote:
Well I'm sorry Gem if my post came across a little heated... I'd just
come off another horrible newsgroup elsewhere... which I will never post
in again. Blah.

I certainly don't think my country is on any better path (the UK) to be
honest; we're just little America waiting to happen.



--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

Gem wrote:

Wonderful to see you, Gemma. I think we're all emotional right now,
including SpaceGirl. When children die so horribly it's doubly difficult
to absorb. If it felt like an attack on her part I hope it came from
genuine concern. Sorrow and outrage come hand in hand at such times. We
rail that we couldn't prevent it, somehow allowed it to happen. Some
have knee jerk reactions, much like wondering what the victim of a crime
did to cause the crime. We mourn, not always gracefully.

At first I thought it was a pretty superior, snotty remark to make, and
maybe it was. But we, all of us, have cutural problems. I do think, as
Americans, we have a responsibility to recognize ours and find some way
to deal with them. Then maybe our influence on the rest of the world
will be more positively valued.

I should let SpaceGirl speak for herself though. My previous rant was
all just venting to friends and colleagues on the human condition, here,
where I live. As I said, I'm certainly not smart or wise enough to have
any answers...


inez

inez wrote:

You're right Inez, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Today has been a
shit day, and I'm utterly disgusted by the attitude of some people I
thought were friends. I can do without people like that in my life.

It's easy to forget too, there here in the UK there are MANY cultural
differences between our nations; I'm sure that some of the things I
accuse America(ns) of being I'm equally guilty of more often than I should.

Yesterday hit me hard too, and I'm not even sure why - I mean apart from
the obvious human reasons, the whole thing really depressed to the point
of tears. I really cannot imagine a bigger failing in society than it's
own children turning on other children with this sort of violence,
wherever that maybe in the world. For this to strike in a country that
is educated, affluent and culturally similar to my own just... well this
could happen here, couldn't it? We're surely doomed as a race if we let
these things happen to our children.

"SpaceGirl" <nothespacegirlspam@subhuman.net> wrote in message
news:1176797988.659304.236920@p77g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
| On Apr 16, 8:16 pm, Henry Schmidt <schmi...@nottelling.nope> wrote:
| > Fred Doyle wrote:
| > > "inez" <nezm...@or.fact> wrote in message:f00bvb$ghu$1@aioe.org...
| > >> Anyone here know the geography of the VT campuses? I have a friend
who
| > >> works here:
| > >> Edward Via Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine
| > >> Blacksburg, VA
| >
| > >> I'm hoping this is a completely separate area from the shootings.
| >
| > > From the NY Times story, "There were two shootings on the campus in
| > > Blacksburg, Va., and in each case fatalities with "multiple shooting
| > > victims," he said."
| >
| > Something in that virginia water, eh?
|
| Something about American culture, actually. Lives are worth less than
| the right to carry a weapon, even if it's the lives of their children.
| Even horrific events like this wont change anything. We'll be reading
| about the next one of these in a few years time and again and again.
| Eventually they will turn campus like this into prison camps with
| unbearable security, and kids will STILL die. How can a modern country
| be so fucking stupid.

Perhaps part of the problem is the low investment in mental health care in
this country. FWIW the State of Texas had a budget short fall and cut meds
to mental health programs that provided meds to patients. The result was
that people who were able to cope and hold jobs were tossed to the local
governments to deal with as a law enforcement problem. Texas saved
something on the order of $1.50 a day on average and the local governments
had to spend $20 per day in increased law enforcement funds to cover the
savings.

Kids, with whom I have personal experience as we are active in the state's
foster care program, and others that exhibit unstable and dangerous behavior
are provided 30 to 60 days inpatent then gated to the street regardless of
their potential for harm to either themselves or others. If OTOH if they
had a contagious disease such as TB they are house and cared for until such
time as they are not a treat to society.

As one who had family and friends who had to deal with the aftermath of
Katrina and know personally of home invasions that were stopped dead (in the
real meaning of that word) as a result of neighbors who had legal weapons
(and training) to do the job of self protection (law enforcement was totally
unable to even protect even the few blocks of the downtown area) I have
serious problems with the presumption that a weapons ban would be effective.

Need I mention that the authorities at VT screwed up royally in the process
of doing their jobs?

Fully automatic weapons (long banned) are readily available as are drugs
(also long banned).

Declaring something illegal (much like a declaration of Mission
Accomplished) does not make it so in the real world.

SpaceGirl wrote:

normal gut reaction.

Sorry to hear about your day. The news yesterday hit me hard, and I can
see it hit you, too.

--
Fred Doyle

Gem! Hi. Nice to see a familiar sig.


--
Fred Doyle

"NotMe" <me@privacy.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:WdbVh.18$7W2.2@newsfe06.lga...

[CUT]

[CUT]

This seems to me an interesting point for understanding why americans don't
want to ban weapons.

Anyway why do you pay State/local taxes if State/ local Police is unable to
protect you?

Just some questions from an uninformed european:
I found out that in U.S. University Police exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_police
Is University Police employed in VT Campus? If so why it was unable to
prevent such tragedy?


Thanks you in advance for your kindly response.

--
Yudistira

"RC_Moonpie"

| >> As one who had family and friends who had to deal with the aftermath of
| >> Katrina and know personally of home invasions that were stopped dead
(in
| >> the
| >> real meaning of that word) as a result of neighbors who had legal
weapons
| >> (and training) to do the job of self protection (law enforcement was
| >> totally
| >> unable to even protect even the few blocks of the downtown area) I have
| >> serious problems with the presumption that a weapons ban would be
| >> effective.
| >
| >[CUT]
| >
| >This seems to me an interesting point for understanding why Americans
don't
| >want to ban weapons.
|
|
|
| 1) there are already millions and millions of handguns in the US, many
| of them illegal. Banning guns will only take guns from law-abiding
| citizens. Criminals and insane people will keep theirs, and find
| black-market guns if legal sales are restricted. This is the fallacy
| of gun-control-advocacy in the US. Granted, Virginias gun control laws
| are lax, but, in America, if you want a gun to kill people, you can
| find one. A tighter gun-control law is no assurance that this idiot
| would have been prevented from doing this.
|
| 2) Its not the laws, or the guns. Its the people here. Finland has a
| higher per-capita-gun ownership than the US but hardly anybody ever
| gets murdered. Americans are bombarded by images of violence via our
| media, violence is often in our entertainment. Listened to any gangsta
| rap lately? This is the tragic end result of a culture drowning in
| imagery of violence, where some cultural entertainment even seems to
| glorify it.
|
| 3) This murdering moron obviously wanted attention. He got it. He knew
| the media would flash his picture and his life story every 15 seconds
| on the television. Its sad that of all the people involved with this,
| the victims are relatively faceless, and his is the one face we are
| seeing over and over. This will only empower other murdering
| psychopaths. WOW lookit al the TV coverage he got!
|
| 4) I'm an American with children, one going to a major university next
| year, and one in elementary school, and I fear for them. but what
| parent does not fear for their children's safety?

We have one shipping out to Iraq at any time with his arm in a cast no less.

SpaceGirl wrote:

Miranda, didn't some quack over your way shoot up some school kids a few
years back?

Drew

on 19/4/07 8:37 pm, Drew wrote:

[Quack = Doctor in English]

Do you mean Dunblane?

"Dunblane Massacre 1996
Gunman mows down class of children leaving 16 dead with their teacher

Thomas Hamilton, aged 43, a disgraced former Scout master whose behaviour
had attracted the attention of the police, turned one of his four guns on
himself after killing or injuring all but one of a class of 29 five- and
six-year-olds at Dunblane primary school, near Stirling."

Prior to that there was the Hungerford Massacre - 15 killed, I believe.