I was recently negotiating a price for a website redesign. The site
they had really sucked, and I mean really sucked. It was probably
designed by a starving artist student. It wasn't a dynamically driven
site, about 25 pages. He told me that he'd paid $900 to have it
designed. He had asked me what I would charge to modernize the site
and to create a new logo for them. I was going to charge $1995 for the
site and $250 to redesign their logo. I also threw in the bonus of not
placing a limit on revisions(within reason). In my opinion I thought
that was a pretty good deal. He said that my offer was larger than his
budget for the project. I wrote back and asked what his budget was and
perhaps we could negotiate. He has yet to reply.

Scenarios like this have happened several times in the last year. For
those of you that make a reasonable living in this field, what is your
negotiation process like. I happen to have a fulltime job designing,
so I'm not hurting for money or anything, but am also looking to add
more projects to my portfolio since my main job is adult entertainment
industry related and I really need stuff that is non-adult related.

I'd love if someone can share any insights as to how your handle your
prospective clients, how you price them, and how you make them feel
that they are getting a good value for their money. In design school
they taught me color theory, layout, how to use flash, quark, how to
use html, etc, etc, but they never taught us anything about the
business end of things. If anyone even has recommendations of any
books that will help in this regards I'd much appreciate it. I'd
rather have some insight by those with experience than having to
stumble around and figure out by trial and error.

"Chris" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:rokf81p4n9e5r6nvbd7ehja1ujno3k527e@4ax.com...
In my opinion, THE most important thing is to first determine the budget
constraints of the client. Once that is determined, target the site design
to fit within their budget. You can offer a range of choices from the low
end of their budget extending beyond the higher budget limitations, and if
you're a good salesperson, you may actually persuade them to go for the
extras. Or they may choose something more practical and still within their
budget. Or you may offer a payment plan that is spread out over a period of
time.

A practice I've found to work in my favor is to find the budget limitations
of the client and create the Web site or graphic while targeting the higher
end of their budget range. Then, if the client is a pleasure to work with,
you can knock off some money after the project is completed, moving back
toward the middle of the budget range. This move will usually make their jaw
drop just before a huge smile appears. If the client is a complete dick, you
charge them the full amount without knocking anything off. This way, you
delight the clients that are a pleasure to work with while maintaining
nothing more than a courteous but professional relationship with the
assholes, who may or may not ever come back. The idea is to completely
satisfy the clients you want to keep so they will come back and/or recommend
you to others. The ones who are complete buttheads will always pay full
price and never get the "pleasure to work with" break. If they do come back,
fine. If not, good luck to the next designer in dealing with them. This
strategy gives you the opportunity to select the clients you want.

Peadge :-)

Chris <no@no.com> did so declare
(news:rokf81p4n9e5r6nvbd7ehja1ujno3k527e@4ax.com) :

I think many designers have a rather sick view of the work we do,
personally my theory is that I deserve to be paid very well for what I do
but I don't think clients should pay more than we're worth.

So my negotiating style is pretty straight forward, I am worth a minimum
rate per hour and if I can't get that amount I would rather be kayaking.

When I quote out a job, I estimate the number of hours a job will take,
add another half to ensure the job can be done within reason, multiply
this by my hourly rate, factor in expenses and out of pocket expenses,
and add 10% for marketing costs.

If I am anticipating a slow week, I work for a rate new prospects are
willing to pay (as long as it is above my minimum) but if I am busy, my
rate reflects a 50% premium for after hours and weekend work.

Notice that I don't charge a Pita (Pain in the Ass) rate, or a rate for
making huge profits … if I did I would work less but also enjoy what I do
less.

As far as your client goes, $2,250 for a web site and logo is a fair
rate. Based on my experience, that would provide the client with 7 days
of labour, more than enough time to complete a great site, if he's only
looking for a good site at $1,000 judge for yourself if you can do a good
site at that rate as opposed to a great site for double.

Quick tip for you ... when discussing budget the client almost always says
"no id like you to give me a quote i dont want to tell you my budget"... try
sayiing "I understand but if you can give me ballparks - what are we looking
at £1000, £5000, £10000...?" they'll typically slip up at this point and
give away their budget saying "more around the £x thousand pounds"

works 9 times out of 10

Mark

In article <42885b11$0$321$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>,
"mark | r" <markrush@gmail.com> wrote:

often it's hard for clients to make a budget because they don't realise
what design work costs.

"mark | r" <markrush@gmail.com> did so declare
(news:42885b11$0$321$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com) :

I tend not to think of it as a 'slip up'. Most clients don't know what
design costs and they're nervous about being over charged, much like the
rest of us at an auto repair shop.

"woodsie" <noreply@none.com> wrote in message
news:428862d7$0$10302$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
....but they'll have an idea of whats too expensive - this method gives them
boundaries to pick from...

Mark

In article <42889bb6$0$345$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>,
"mark | r" <markrush@gmail.com> wrote:

and that idea will most likely be way off.


and for us to educate them on the real value of what they're about to
get.

good idea Mark )

will try on next client, bc I realy dont like phrases like " give me your
quote..."

Vad.

woodsie wrote:



.. . . or that they don't care sh*** about it AND us.

I get that a lot of times in Singapore.



Mezza

"Muzafar Md Yusof"

| > often it's hard for clients to make a budget because they don't realize
| > what design work costs.

| . . . or that they don't care sh*** about it AND us.
|
| I get that a lot of times in Singapore.

We get a few of those, basically clients that can't/won't be educated on
what's involved, but not more than once for any given player as we use the
80/20 filter.

Kinda take a perverse enjoyment in watching the look on their face when we
tell them 'sorry we are not accepting your project'

"woodsie" <noreply@none.com> wrote in message
news:428862d7$0$10302$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
When you use analogies clients seem to *get it* a little better. Ask him
doe's he want his site to be like a Honda Civic or a Ferrari 360? And when
he says he wants a Ferrari but can only afford a Honda, you now have a
ballpark idea of his budget and you can negotiate from there.

Hey it sounds good in theory!
---
ra