Question: Why do we feel so uncomfortable to talk about the rates we
charge? or do we?

Rastin

--
Rastin Mehr
---------------------------------------------------
rmd Studio
http://www.rmdStudio.com
http://www.netphotography.com/netphotography
---------------------------------------------------
"The fact that Adam was sent to the Earth
to be alone with the only most beautiful
women he once met in heaven, doesn't sound
like a punishment at all"

"Rastin Mehr" <FindMyEmail@mywebsite.com> wrote in message
news:ejINa.363150$3C2.9951730@news3.calgary.shaw.c a...

i'm fine with it

the only thing i could think of is that people might not want to find out
they are making a pittance compared to others?! i'm sure there might be
other reasons but thats all i came up with in 5 seconds

mmm ... that sounds like a valid argument actually, but perhaps not the
only reason.

Maybe this is not a good topic at all, I don't mean to make anybody feel
uncomfortable here.

Rastin

--
Rastin Mehr
---------------------------------------------------
rmd Studio
http://www.rmdStudio.com
http://www.netphotography.com/netphotography
---------------------------------------------------
"The fact that Adam was sent to the Earth
to be alone with the only most beautiful
women he once met in heaven, doesn't sound
like a punishment at all"

Hey Rastin!

Different people in different markets live different realities and, as an
obvious result of that, must apply different rates for the same job..., but
as the same job can be done in different ways, those rates will change once
again...

Some will charge $50 an hour and make a living comfortably, and others may
charge $200 an hour and barely cover production costs...

So, there's no *one-size-fit-all* rate...

That's the way *I* see it...

What was the question again...?

:-)

Pepe
Milano, Italy

in article ejINa.363150$3C2.9951730@news3.calgary.shaw.ca, Rastin Mehr at
FindMyEmail@mywebsite.com wrote on 7/5/03 5:29 PM:

I've known it to lead to lowballing in some cases.

Brian

No one else has given a hard figure yet...
I go from $10-$40/hour, depending on the job. $40 is rare, but it really
depends. Usually, I go for about $20-$25.
All prices CAD

Adam
www.webresults4u.com


"Rastin Mehr" <FindMyEmail@mywebsite.com> wrote in message
news:ejINa.363150$3C2.9951730@news3.calgary.shaw.c a...

Thank you Adam, Well I had no intention to encourage people to put up
their price lists, but how comfortable (or awkward) would designers feel
to talk about their fees and why ...



Rastin

--
Rastin Mehr
---------------------------------------------------
rmd Studio
http://www.rmdStudio.com
http://www.netphotography.com/netphotography
---------------------------------------------------
"The fact that Adam was sent to the Earth
to be alone with the only most beautiful
women he once met in heaven, doesn't sound
like a punishment at all"

hi rastin,

Money, and especially salaries are still quite taboo in our society, people
don't just throw out
how much they earn or stuff like that so i guess it's part of the answer.

Moreover, when you work freelance, you can do it fully legally, or declare a
part and keep a part on the black, another thing to be sure not to mention
the exact amount you charge.

But i would say the most obvious one is just that it's a tight market, and
it's never easy to know how much
to charge, it's kind of the luck of the draw sometimes, you give it a try at
a price, if the client bites, you're either too low, at an average price, or
if you're too high, he doesn't know you're too high (he might find out fast
though, and you'll loose him) so basically i think there's no "true" price,
and people just charge what they feel is correct.

Take my old company, they would charge 1000-2000 USD a day for consultants
on a Fix-Time/Fix Price project, for a developper but would probably stick
it to 700-1000USD for a Time & Material project (basically you're at the
clients location and work there for the time they need you) and this price
would vary depending on the clients, large corporations would be charged
less, yes less you heard, just to make sure they kept the business running
with them, and could place more consultants in the place, therefore become
more and more indispensable ;o)

pfewww still i'm out of work now but this news post is showing me how much
i'm glad anyhow to have left that company ... all for the better somestage
;o)

hope that's within the thread ;o)))

Olivier

"Rastin Mehr" <FindMyEmail@mywebsite.com> wrote in message
news:hk7Oa.376540$ro6.9149048@news2.calgary.shaw.c a...

Pretty much all three are in the ballpark, but #2 is the best example. In
fact, they may not charge higher prices ever. I have known of vengeful
people who will drastically underbid something just to make sure I (just
using myself as an example) won't get it because at that price it's a deal
that can't be beat. I have recently seen instances where a business gets a
job and a lowballer continues to go after the job in hopes of taking it from
the winning bidder.

Brian


in article Ag7Oa.374447$3C2.10265724@news3.calgary.shaw.ca, Rastin Mehr at
FindMyEmail@mywebsite.com wrote on 7/7/03 12:09 AM:

Well in the case, I guess it just showed that I'm not all that uncomfortable
discussing rates.

Being in my current siutation (living at home), and age (16) means two
things...
- No qualifications
- 100% of my income is disposable
Being my age and having no qualifications limits what I'm able to charge.
But not having any large recurring expenses (yet... the car comes soon)
allows my to flucuate my rates quite a bit to meet the client's budget.
Also, because I have low expenses, I don't have to worry about the volume of
work I receive.

Adam
www.webresults4u.com


"Rastin Mehr" <FindMyEmail@mywebsite.com> wrote in message
news:hk7Oa.376540$ro6.9149048@news2.calgary.shaw.c a...

Hi Olivier,

Thank you for your thoughtful participation, your answer was pretty much
what I've been looking for. And good luck on the freelance work. I
started 4 years ago, and I don't think if I'll ever give up my freedom
from the corporate world

Best wishes,

Rastin

olivier Borgognon wrote:

--
Rastin Mehr
---------------------------------------------------
rmd Studio
http://www.rmdStudio.com
http://www.netphotography.com/netphotography
---------------------------------------------------
"The fact that Adam was sent to the Earth
to be alone with the only most beautiful
women he once met in heaven, doesn't sound
like a punishment at all"

Brian Mays wrote:

Good insight, thank you Brian

I have recently seen instances where a business gets a
Oh tell me about it I've been there, funny enough this lowballer in my
case was a franchisee owned webdesign-hosting company who claimed they
can do the Job in 2 weeks with 1/4th of the price, not mentioning that
their hosting service was 4 times more expensive than the company I use
for my hosting.


--
Rastin Mehr
---------------------------------------------------
rmd Studio
http://www.rmdStudio.com
http://www.netphotography.com/netphotography
---------------------------------------------------
"The fact that Adam was sent to the Earth
to be alone with the only most beautiful
women he once met in heaven, doesn't sound
like a punishment at all"

Interesting topic -- it is noteworthy that not all of us here are really the
same type of designers and so the whole rates issue is a bit relative.

Where I'm coming from is ad agencies and graphic design firms --
Seattle/Portland. They are pretty up front about their hourly rate which
right now is at about $125 per hour for design (less for production). It's
really no deep dark secret and is in fact based on an old formula...

http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/ratesFAQ.html#2

Freelancers on the other hand are charging about half of what a firm or
agency would charge. I personally am pitching myself as a small design
studio which means I charge somewhere in between -- leaning towards the rate
of a design firm.

I prefer to bid on each project as a whole ‹ I NEVER bid an hourly rate! But
I do use an hourly rate to help calculate my bids. I meet with the client,
talk about what they need and then I put together a proposal. That way the
client knows up front what the project will cost and I can adjust my fee to
fit the clients needs without compromising the integrity of the work.
Sometimes I make a lot per hour and sometimes not ‹ and the quality of the
work remains consistent (more or less).

Having said all of this -- I confess that I AM uncomfortable talking with
people about an hourly rate. I believe that if someone such as myself (with
my partner) is really doing the job right -- mostly that would mean project
management -- the client gets the exact same end result (or better) that
they would with a large firm. Why shouldn't I be charging closer to what a
firm would charge then freelancers fee?

It is the feeling that the client would be uneasy knowing that they are
paying almost as much for my small operation as a large firm that in return
makes me feel uncomfortable.

Clear as mud?

Gary D.


On 7/6/03 12:54 AM, in article be8kjt$2b8vd$1@ID-121762.news.dfncis.de,
"Giuseppe Carmine De Blasio" <pbloise@libero.it> wrote:

Gary D. wrote:


Hourly rates are confusing because they ultimately don't tell clients what
they most want to know -- which is "How Much?" Project pricing is better if
everyone can agree on the parameters, and it's much easier to plan/implement
budgets with project pricing.

Also, even though production can be a commodity item, custom design is
*not.* I carefully consider what a design is worth to the client when
putting together a proposal.

Dan
http://www.FreelanceWorkshops.com





"Gary Dickson" <gary@epidemicdesign.com> wrote in message
news:BB2F580B.5AB1%gary@epidemicdesign.com...

Many, but not all lol

Matt (still grafting hard, got a new contract today and some offers on
licenses for my CMS)
--
I miss Rage Against The Machine.


"Rastin Mehr" <FindMyEmail@mywebsite.com> wrote in message
news:jJgOa.381464$ro6.9199889@news2.calgary.shaw.c a...

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No viruses found in this message.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 1/6/03

I must say I agree with Dan. Quoting hourly rates doesn't make much
sense to the clients since most of time they don't know the process of
work. All they care about is the total cost for the project, because
that's what they have to pay for. I think it would be the designer's
responsibility to deal with the hourly rate and the total project cost.

I also don't like charging per page. There is no defined way to see how
much work a page will require. Specially if it gets to creating dynamic
web sites when pages are created dynamically using server or client side
programming.



Dan wrote:

--
Rastin Mehr
---------------------------------------------------
rmd Studio
http://www.rmdStudio.com
http://www.netphotography.com/netphotography
---------------------------------------------------
"The fact that Adam was sent to the Earth
to be alone with the only most beautiful
women he once met in heaven, doesn't sound
like a punishment at all"

Thank you much-much guys for the insight into charging and freelance rates
v's corporate. I wasnt sure myself where to start and this has helped with
direction quite a bit - the business advisors who don't deal exclusively in
design really have no idea when they say you should "charge by the hour",
which ultimately led me here for further information. Your experience is
very much appreciated and I thank you again for sharing it!

--- Aim


"Brian Mays" <bmays1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:BB2ED258.175FC%bmays1@sbcglobal.net...