Hi All,

Are there any "legal" eBooks in the works by "NOW"?
If not, here an Online Petition you can sign:

http://www.petitiononline.com/hpebook/petition.html

Regards,
Byron Collins
Kentucky, USA

Byron Collins wrote:
For illegal copies, try alt.binaries.ebooks and so forth.

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 07:14:03 -0700, "Byron Collins"
<bcollins@clarksville.com> wrote:

This is silly. She has no reason to pay attention to any petitions.

If you want to do something, improve the quality of the underground
e-books.

Dave

When the Prime Minister spoke yesterday I thought to myself, "I hope I'll
be able to give a speech like that when I grow up" - Bill Clinton, October
2, 2002

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 04:47:22 -0500, Alkinoos
<dsuemeacustomerofcomcast.net> wrote the following in ink distilled
from the fermented blood of a Norwegian Ridgeback:

Not that I wish to take away her money... but I think an individual
who is paid AU$47 million for one days takings can afford the drain
caused by people leeching illegal e-books...

.... in fact I think she could give probably the next one away and
*still* male millions off it

Trouble is of course it isn't JKR who'll be kicking up a fuss, it's
the publishers
--
Skyrider

Visit Australian Opinion...where comment counts!
http://www.australianopinion.com

What have you have produced in your life and existance that you can
afford to allow to be leeched by individuals who feel they have the
right to take parts of your life without paying for them?

Flowers from your yard, gas from your vehicle, code you have written,
tools left unsecured, a purse on the front seat, a wallet taken from a
crowded event, your child's shoes or their gameboy at school, etc, etc?

We, as a society, have to respect the rights and property of others,
for, if we fail to do so in any way and at any level (such as an illegal
copy of a book) we implicitly forfeit any and all rights to object when
the same violations are visited on ourselves.

I agree that the publishers are far from guiltless, but there are other
options to deal with them such as fostering alternatives such as
micropayments to help put them out of business before their time.

Beverly Howard

"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:

I go to the library and borrow a book, read it, and return it.
I go to the net, download a book, read it, and erase it.

Other than legality what is the difference?

Money of course...

AaronJ wrote:
In one case, you have permission, and in the other, you do not. Do you
live in a country ruled by law?

Jeff

AaronJ wrote in message <7gond1l3nk5pj04ovrr28t0fmeqkrqrsej@4ax.com>:
There is a slight difference*: while you have borrowed the book, others
people can not read it. If a lot of people ask for the book, the library may
buy more exemplaries.

The real condition is: if you can not read the book now for free (by
borrowing it, which is legal, or by downloading it on illegal sources), what
do you do?

If the answer is that you will wait until you can borrow it, then there is
absolutely no harm caused to the author.

jeff wrote in message <42dbe4e8$0$16752$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com>:
You are mistaking the letter of the law and its spirit.

The spirit of the law is to prevent people from harming the author. As I
said in my previous message, the question wether downloading the book from
underground sources causes harm to the author depends on what one would have
done if one could not download it: buy it or not.

But the law can not juge on "what would you have done if". Thus, the letter
of the law is either more strict, or less strict than its spirit.

Authors, and especially publishers, always push toward a stricter law, for
example by asking borrowing fees in libraries. Most of today IP law has been
designed before the information technologies development, and can not be
well suited for new technologies.

When a law is no longer adapted to the common situation, there is a
tolerance to its application, until new trends become obvious and the law
can be revised.

In article <#GN9Jk7iFHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, Beverly Howard
[Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote:
Interesting that almost all of the items you list above (with the
exception of 'code you have written') are actual material goods. We
don't have matter duplicators yet, so taking them of necessity deprives
the owner of their use. Information, on the other hand, isn't stolen,
it is *copied*.

Information is subject to *copyright*, not *ownership*, despite the
common misnomer "intellectual property". A copyright is a temporary
monopoly given to authors to encourage them to publish; in US law there
is no notion of someone "owning" the actual work. It's not property,
what can be owned and transferred are certain rights over how the
work is duplicated.

As to your one informational example, well, the few stories I have
written and the programs I've done on my own time are released under
the GPL or as public domain.

I have no ethical problem with circumventing DRM for most purposes.
For example, I don't pirate games, but I always install a no-cd crack
when possible; having game CDs around small children is a recipe for
disaster.

I wouldn't download a Harry Potter book if I didn't own it in another
form. (Having lost interest after the third one, though, I'm unlikely
to download one in any event.) But if I already owned a copy, I
wouldn't be ethically troubled by getting it in electronic form. I've
grabbed MP3s for songs I have on cassette, for example, and I don't
feel a bit of guilt over that.

Just pointing out that it's a bit more complicated than you seem to
have considered. Perhaps I misunderstood your point.

--
Sincerely,

Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317

"Men often believe - or pretend - that the "Law" is something
sacred, or at least a science - an unfounded assumption very
convenient to governments." - Robert Heinlein

There are other examples such as buying the paper book and reading an
ecopy which makes ethical sense to me.

I do find that it's sometimes difficult to do so, such as out of print
editions where the copyright is still in force... several cases in point
including http://bevhoward.com/ycltf.htm#copyright ;-)

Beverly Howard

Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote:
He's right, I feel. Legally, I can't download an e-book to read while on
the treadmill, even if I have a physical copy on the shelf. But I don't
feel that I'm doing anything morally wrong.

Getting out of paying for any of it in the first place, well...

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:23:03 -0500, jeff wrote:

Yes I do. However it is also my democratic right to engage in civil
disobedience against laws that I feel are unjust, provided I am ready to
accept the consequences.

It is a perfectly reasonable point of view to take, that the widespread
breaking of copyright law (in the U.K. that is just about every single
person over the age of about 10) as civil disobedience.

In the end the laws can only work if the majority of people accept and
abide by them. The fact that there is such widespread breaking of
copyright law shows that in it's current form the majority of people do
not accept it as valid.

JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195

jeff <jeff@invalid.spam> wrote:

Yes and apparently in a country of illiterates. My post says "other than
legality"...

Nicolas George <nicolas$george@salle-s.org> wrote:

Yes, the library impedes the process. But the process is the same nevertheless.

There is a third condition. There are many books still in copyright that are no
longer in print. Then what?

You could buy it used, but the author gets nothing...

Nicolas George <nicolas$george@salle-s.org> wrote:

Actually it is mostly to prevent the harm to the publisher.
The author gets but a small percentage.

Yep, if they thought they could get away with it, library borrowing would be as
illegal (immoral?) as downloading...

"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:

Ok, how about if I borrow the *same* paper library book that I also download as
an ebook. I keep the library book in my possession while I read the ebook on my
Palm. When finished I delete the ebook and return the library book. Am I covered
morally now? There is no financial difference to anybody...

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:52:06 -0500, "Beverly Howard
[Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote the following in
ink distilled from the fermented blood of a Norwegian Ridgeback:

Well for a start I have an online slang dictionary that I've had
published but is available free of charge for people to access and
use. I've spent several years of my life compiling it... and am
*still* adding to it daily... but that's my choice.

It's never made much money... certainly nothing like the amount JKR
has been paid, nor will it ever, but that hasn't stopped me sharing
what I have with others.

<snip>

Like I said... go read the dictionaries free... http://www.odps.org

Whilst initially JKR was in the same boat as the vast majority of us,
i.e. struggling to survive, she no longer fits into that category. I
think there is *no* moral reason to feel guilt in relation to when
that person will be paying more in *taxes* than most of us ever earn!

Please remember that even if Book 7 was given away free with breakfast
cereal.... JKR would *still* make millions just from marketing! And
best of luck to her... she's doing the work - she should get paid for
it. However, it remains true that she as an individual *can* now
afford the minor leeching that goes on by the production of e-books.
--
Skyrider

Visit Australian Opinion...where comment counts!
http://www.australianopinion.com

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:45:43 -0400, Harry Hazardous
<asianjohnnynitro@removethis.veryspeedy.net> wrote the following in
ink distilled from the fermented blood of a Norwegian Ridgeback:
Ok... and look at from another direction.

There are *millions* of HPB books out there. They are not subject to
licence as is MS-PX for example.... they our books so we can do with
them what we wish.

So... we read them... and pass them on to someone - free. This person
has acquired the book for nothing... can read it... and *also* pass it
on. Should they be ethically bound to pay the author or publisher a
'reading fee'??

And if the one book is read *free* by 10 or 20 people?? What then?

Also, does this second person have the same moral or ethical
obligation not to read an e-book version since that is *also* free?
--
Skyrider

Visit Australian Opinion...where comment counts!
http://www.australianopinion.com

"Nicolas George" <nicolas$george@salle-s.org> wrote in message
news:dbgpjc$3f4$1@biggoron.nerim.net...
SNIP

With all due respect you are wrong on this point. By downloading the book
you have harmed the author, publisher and others who stand to make money off
the sales of the copyrighted material. Saying that you wouldn't have bought
the book anyway is no excuse for downloadin the illegal material. It's sort
of like saying "I wouldn't have stolen this car if it hadn't of been
unlocked with the keys in the ignition."

In this case the intent and spirit of the law are identical. You cannot take
copyrighted material that doesn't belong to you regardless of "what you
might have done.."

While it's true that some authors and publishers want strict controls over
the distribution of their material still others make some of their works
avaible for free on the net in hopes of attracting people to their other
works which they charge for. Just because the concept of "thou shalt no
steal" came about long before modern technology doesn't make it any less
relevant in today's world. And even though we have the technology to blast
open bank vaults with modern chemical explosives it doesn't give us the
right to employ that technology for illegal purposes.

Some things will stand the test of time such as laws against lieing,
stealing or murder. Just because the majority of people want something to be
legal doesn't mean it ever will be. I for one wish that book publishers
would embrace some of the new technology and distribute material
electronically. I believe it would actually increase their sales overall and
could also increase profit margins too.

Cheers
TC