"pbl" <pblnews@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:%23Gv9fhbsIHA.5724@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

pbl:
Sorry to hear about your not-so-good experience with the Dell XPS M1530. I
haven't worked with that machine but I noticed it has garnered favorable
reviews by & large. Ironically (at least from your experience) one of
features of that laptop the reviewers particularly liked was the screen
display. One never knows, does one?

BTW, as you probably know Dell has come out with a larger (17" screen)
version - the XPS M1730. Haven't seen or used one myself but a friend tells
me that one of his friends (having a primary interest in gaming) has one and
virtually swoons over it. But it's expensive - in the $4,000 range I
believe.

As long as you're going back (at least in the meantime) to a
CardBus-equipped laptop or notebook you can use a CardBus (PCMCIA) card with
either a SATA or eSATA port. Most of them actually come with two ports -
generally eSATA, but as a practical matter it really doesn't matter whether
they're SATA or eSATA ports. eSATA is considered a more secure type of
data-cable connection and usually the SATA data cable equipped with an eSATA
connector is more heavily shielded than the usual SATA connector data cable.
So all things considered, I suppose the eSATA port equipped CardBus would be
the one to go with, especially since there's really no significant price
differential involved based on the last time I checked. Take a look at...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...port&x=19&y=32
and you can also do a Google search on "CardBus with SATA port".

Understand - as I previously mentioned - that you will not be able to boot
from a SATA HDD (containing a potentially bootable OS) connected to the
CardBus device, regardless of whether it has a SATA or eSATA port. At least
we were never able to achieve that capability with a number of different
makes & models of CardBus SATA cards that we used. As you've indicated I
guess that's not an important consideration for you but it is a capability
we're particularly interested in so that a comprehensive backup system would
be available to a laptop/notebook in a relatively simple & straightforward
way. We're hopeful the ExpressCard devices will work out to achieve that
capability.

I haven't really worked to any appreciable degree with 54mm ExpressCards,
although the few times we used a 34mm ExpressCard inserted in the 54mm
ExpressCard module we didn't experience any problems. I believe there are
adapters now available that allow a CardBus-PCMCIA card to be used in an
ExpressCard module but I've had no experience with them. But that is not
what you were referring to as an "extender", were you? What would be the
function of the plastic extender you mentioned for 34mm ExpressCards. They
provide a more secure fit inside the 54mm module?

And have you actually used the Belkin ExpressCard? For what purpose?
Anna

As Anna says, you will not have a bootable external drive but you will have
a fast external drive. The throughput will be six times usb or firewire, so
go for it.

"Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
news:ec1ltydsIHA.1872@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

"Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
news:ec1ltydsIHA.1872@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Hi Anna,

So, just to be clear, if I purchase a CardBus with an eSATA port for my
WinXP PCMCIA equipped laptop and an eSATA drive it should work? The plan
would be to eventually use the drive in a new ExpressCard equipped Vista
laptop, probably the M1530 again when they sort out the screen problem.

On the issue of the M1530 display - Dell ships both LG and Samsung WSXGA+
displays for this model and the problem only exists with the Samsung, if
you're unlucky enough to get one (you can't actually choose the brand you
want). You would think a simple swap would be the way to go but I have met
with firm resistance from one particularly strong-willed tech support guy.
As strange as it might seem, the easier thing for me to do is to obtain a
full refund, wait, and re-order as less Samsung screens are being released
now. In the US, LED displays have also been released but that may not happen
in Oz or at least for some time according to the newsgroups. The M1530 is
otherwise a superb hi-spec laptop with a lot of visual appeal (T9300, 4 GB
RAM, 256 MB GeForce 8600M GT). The XPS M1730 is a little out of my price
range and too heavy for portability, but the specs are rather impressive.

The extender that I spoke of is otherwise termed a 34/54 mm spacer adaptor.
It is a piece of plastic that snaps onto the side of a 34mm ExpressCard to
enable it to fit into a 54 mm module more securely. Google doesn't provide
much help locating one of these but one came with the Targus ExpressCard
docking station I bought with my M1530. I have a local picture of how it
works if you're interested.

No, I haven't used the Belkin ExpressCard at this point in time.

"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:E38064C8-F6DB-4D3F-8170-01D1341FB775@microsoft.com...
possibility that I hadn't thought of with an ExpressCard. When I get my new
Laptop I will certainly experiment with this. If it works it may be possible
to set up a dual boot scenario - Vista and WinXP or even trebble boot with
Linux. That would be a lot of fun. But I would need a large eSATA drive. Can
you go to 1TB with eSATA? Is there a physical limit that ExpressCard or
PCMCIA (my only current option) can recognise?

Yes.

Forget about anything but SATA. The day of IDE drives is over.

I can guarantee that you will not be able to boot Windows with the current
eSATA ExpressCards so before you buy a new laptop make sure it has an
integrated eSATA port if possible. They should become more common so take
your time.

"pbl" <pblnews@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:uOY4R2isIHA.4392@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

"pbl" <pblnews@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:uapCiyisIHA.4952@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
(SNIP)


pbl:
Yes, the eSATA CardBus will work just fine in terms of data transfer with
your SATA HDD contained in a SATA external enclosure. As I previously
mentioned you won't be able to boot to that SATA external HDD should it
contain a potential bootable XP OS but it's ideal for general data
transfer - considerably superior to a USB external HDD for that purpose.

And, as you say, you would use the SATA EHD connected through an ExpressCard
module on your Dell M1530 after it's repaired. Hopefully, the boot
capability will be present under those circumstances. Please keep us
informed of your experience in that area should you ever use a disk-cloning
program to clone the contents of your laptop's internal HDD to the SATA
external HDD through the ExpressCard device. I'd really be interested in
that aspect.

Thanks for the info on the "extender". I was unfamiliar with that item. The
few times I had occasion to use a 34mm ExpressCard in a notebook that was
equipped with the 54mm ExpressCard slot, the card fit in reasonably securely
and I can't recall using any sort of extender or adapter. At least I wasn't
aware of one. I'm beginning to wonder whether an extender/adapter was
already affixed to the card and I just didn't notice it. I'll look into this
further.
Anna

"Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
news:uYm4RYjsIHA.3804@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
research over the next few days to locate a suitable SATA drive and
enclosure. I have a couple of recommendations already to work with.

"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BD780CDE-F4AC-4072-AB87-52A4130E13B3@microsoft.com...
possibly only on high end machines. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it
limited to connecting external drives compared with the multiuse
characteristics of say USB or firewire. But I had another thought - I don't
know about other laptops but for the Dell range the internal drive is
located in a caddy that effectively slides in a slot on the side of the
chassis making it very easy to replace (simply undo one screw). I could have
a back up of my entire disk on a separate 2.5" drive or another OS to boot
to or both.

Thanks for your help.

Integrated eSATA ports are beginning to show up on laptops and the problem
of course is scarce real estate. But the OP's question was specific to a
bootable port and right now it would have to be an integrated eSATA port or
nothing at all.

"pbl" <pblnews@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:%23bFYpaksIHA.672@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

- I reckon an integrated eSATA port as standard is a while away

"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message
newsBD5254A-2C21-4E61-82F4-92F59A426849@microsoft.com...

Just one point of clarification...

It is not the eSATA port that determines potential "bootability" but the
direct SATA-to-SATA connection that's controlling in this situation. Should
an external SATA HDD be connected to even a "normal" SATA (non-eSATA) port
the drive will be bootable assuming, of course, that it contains a bootable
copy of the XP OS. (Obviously we're assuming that the PC, i.e., the
motherboard, supports SATA capability).

A number of desktop cases come equipped with a "regular" (non- eSATA) SATA
port and they work just fine to achieve this "bootability". It is true,
however, that external non-eSATA ports are pretty much a thing of the past
and virtually every new desktop case that comes equipped with an external
port supporting SATA devices comes with an eSATA port. And, of course, any
desktop motherboard that contains external SATA capability will similarly be
equipped with an eSATA port.

There are still a number of SATA adapters on the market (installed on the
backplane of a PC's desktop case) that have a non-eSATA port or ports and
they too work just fine to achieve this "bootability". Again, they're fast
disappearing from the market to be replaced by devices containing the eSATA
type of port.

The basic advantage of the eSATA port over the "regular" SATA port is that
it provides a more secure connection with the SATA data cable. And the SATA
data cable that usually comes (or is used) with an eSATA-equipped device is
generally a more heavily-shielded cable than the "regular" SATA data cable.

As Colin points out, laptops/notebooks that are equipped with a eSATA port
are a rare commodity. More's the pity since it's such a useful device -
considerably superior to USB external devices used for data transfer.
Hopefully that will change in the not-too-distant future but the industry,
as a whole, has been woefully slow in embracing this superior technology.
Particularly surprising because the additional cost involved is relatively
trifling in the scheme of things. One of the reasons may be a "watch & wait"
attitude because of the forthcoming SATA3 specifications/devices that are
supposedly on the horizon.
Anna

Whatever, but I don't think you will ever see a laptop with an integrated
SATA port because the technology has moved on now to eSATA ports.

"Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
news:u8kUc3qsIHA.1872@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C8AEDE.60D93700
Content-Type: image/jpeg;
name="SoftBlue.jpg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64


"Walter Wall" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:48201820$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...

Hello!

"pbl" <pblnews@internode.on.net> wrote in message news:uOY4R2isIHA.4392@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
BTW, an external SATA disk doesn't need to be bootable to
install second Windows NT OS on it (in dual boot scenario).
But \bootmgr (or \ntldr) (which is located on active partition and
not on external disk) must be able to see it ...

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/bootmgr.html

Regards, Roman

I am having an eSATA detection problem with my computer. recently installed
a new motherboard, and an add on eSATA host controller card ,(This uses the
jMicron JMB363 chip)- this card is plugged into the pci express x 4 slot.
Anyway, I downloaded and installed the drivers, I see no problems/conflicts
with the host controller when I look at the hardware manager in windows XP,
it says the device is working properly. Unfortunately, it never detects the
external SATA when I plug it in. However, if I plug it into USB, the drive
is detected no problem. When I plug this drive into my other computer it
appears to work fine (The eSATA is on the motherboard and I am using Vista
Home premium on this computer). It would be nice to use the speed of the
SATA during backups.
Any suggestions?
My system config:
Windows XP SP3, ASUS P5K-VM motherboard, Core 2 duo E4500, 2GB ram, Kingwin
PCI express to 2 SATA II and 1 PATA host controller model U2PCI-2.
I am using is a Thermaltake Silver River Duo A2396 hard drive enclosure with
a 320GB Western digital SATA II.


--
Jn 3.16


"Colin Barnhorst" wrote:

"earlgrey9" <earlgrey@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:807CBE60-F070-4CE9-B1F8-23C00869C0B5@microsoft.com...

earlgrey9:
Following bootup with the external SATA HDD connected, access Device Manager
and right-click on "Disk drives" and then "Scan for hardware changes". That
might do the trick of detecting the drive.

If not...

I take it your SATA HDD is in an external enclosure that has both
SATA-to-SATA connectivity as well as the USB interface, right? And the
enclosure's SATA port is an eSATA port, right?

I'm assuming that if you would *directly* connect the SATA HDD to one of the
motherboard's SATA connectors there would be no problem. (Obviously the
drive's source of power would come from a direct connection to your system's
power supply).

Anyway, since the external SATA HDD works while connected to an eSATA port
on another PC we can assume there's no problem either with the drive nor the
external enclosure.

So that, of course, leaves the SATA controller card. We'll assume that you
correctly connected the card & its drivers. What's the make & model of the
card? Have you checked with the card's manufacturer (assuming there's a
website available) to see if they could shed any light on the problem?

Any chance of installing the card in your other machine to see what happens
there?

As an aside...over the years we've run into so many incompatibility problems
with these SATA PCI controller cards that we're loathe to recommend them as
a general proposition. Assuming we're dealing with a desktop machine we
usually recommend an eSATA adapter along these lines...
http://www.provantage.com/scripts/ca...tspecs/STRT0HA
(That particular model is equipped with an internal power plug so that power
to the SATA HDD can be supplied through the system's own PS. But there are
other models that just have the SATA or eSATA port and power would be
supplied through the external enclosure such as the one you have).

What about trying another PCI slot?

Anna

On Wed, 28 May 2008 04:21:00 -0700, earlgrey9 <earlgrey@nospam.com>
wrote:

I assume the driver you downloaded and installed was not U2PCI-2.exe,
because it contains the driver for the SiI 3x12 chip.

Thank you for your thoughtful consideration I usually don't do forums
cause I can usually figure things out

There was some other troubleshooting stuff I did, but did not want to be too
long winded in my first post to this group

I did try going into the device manager > SCSI and Raid Controllers> right
click on Jmicron JMB36X controller> Scan for hardware changes. This did not
work.
I tried unplugging the eSATA cable and replugging it in to get autodetect to
see it. No dice.

-My SATA is in an external enclosure, with its own power supply. Looks like
a regular ac adapter.
-The enclosure has a switch and 2 connectors. 1 eSATA and 1 usb 2.0. Just
flip switch to eSATA or USB and plug in the corresponding cable.

-earlier I had the problematic mothrboard installed in my Vista machine and
detection was ok under Vista, but flaky after vista SP1 was installed. I
decided to buy another with a built in eSATA controller, thinking there might
be a potential conflict between the onboard sata ports and the Kingwin
controller card.

Getting back to the current problem, I tried downloading drivers from 3
sources. 1. Kingwin, 2. JMicron, 3. ASUS (I downloaded the driver for the
motherboard that had the built in eSATA since it has the same JMicron chip
and would likely use the same driver and interrupts. ) None of these drivers
worked. I could get the computer to see the card, it would say "This device
is working properly" but the card would not see a drive connected.

-I remembered on some computers I've built in the past, a message just after
POST that said something like "press F _ to load 3rd party Raid drivers" But
apparenty I don't have that option for this motherboard.
If I try running the raid setup software from windows XP, it says no raid
drives detected.

-If I go into BIOS setup, I only see the local SATA drives.

-I only have one pci express x4 slot, the other express slot is x16 for
the display adapter so I am stuck with this slot.

-Here's another stray thought I had, if I bought a SATA card with eSATA
ports, and disabled the onboard SATA controller, would I have better luck?
What do you think?

I think I am agreeing with your statement on compatability problems and pci
cards.
I will look at the link you gave me...

Thanks!



Jn 3.16


"Anna" wrote:

"earlgrey9" <earlgrey@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:6A687FB8-0E88-41E2-8F27-DB7D8606F1A3@microsoft.com...

Setting aside my previous comment re the problems we seemed to consistently
run into with various SATA controller cards, I wouldn't give up on your
Kingwin card just yet. Have you been in touch with Kingwin tech support to
see if they can shed some light on the problem you're experiencing? If not,
it's surely worth a try.

I take it you have one or more *internal* SATA HDDs installed in your
system. Is that right? You mentioned the WD 320 GB HDD. Is that the HDD
installed in your SATA external enclosure or is that your internal HDD? In
any event you are working with a non-RAID configuration, right?

Assuming you are working with a non-RAID configuration the motherboard's
default settings should be OK as they relate to your internal SATA HDD(s).

I don't suppose you have a SATA data cable with a eSATA connector on one end
and a "regular" SATA connector on the other end. If you did you could
connect your external enclosure directly to one of the motherboard's SATA
connectors. I have the feeling the external SATA HDD would work just fine in
that configuration.

But, of course, that would still leave the problem with the SATA controller
card...

And you did try the "Scan for hardware changes" in the "Disk drives" section
of Device Manager, right? Probably won't have any effect but worth a try.

And you have worked with your SATA external enclosure powered on at bootup,
right?

I note from photos that there appears to be a switch on the external
enclosure device for either USB or eSATA. Assuming that's the case,
naturally you've ensured it's set correctly, right?
Anna

On Wed, 28 May 2008 19:18:00 -0700, earlgrey9 <earlgrey@nospam.com>
wrote:

Here's what I've done:
1) I have settings in the BIOS to allow me to run SATA drives in
either RAID-mode, AHCI-mode, or IDE-mode. I chose to use IDE
emulation, when I was unable to install XP in RAID mode without using
the floppy I received with my computer which contained the RAID
driver, since my machine has no floppy drive. In fact, my Intel
motherboard doesn't even have an option to use a floppy -- no floppy
controller or connector on the motherboard.
2) I also installed Vista in IDE-emulation mode, and have had little
trouble since, other than the eSATA drive disappearing after running
for an hour or more.

Both SATA drives (the internal as well as the external) are running at
DMA 6. And I can run Windows completely from the eSATA drive, if I
choose. There is a small pause each time I access the eSATA when
running it as boot device, but the pause is almost imperceptible.

Don't know if this will help, but I hope it does.


Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original newsgroup and thread.
================================================== ======

- I will see if I can contact Kingwin.

-In the XP system, the mobo has 4 onboard SATA 2 connections, I have two ea
Western digital 160GB SATA I HDDs, and 1ea SATA LG brand DVD burner. The
WD 320 GB is installed in the external enclosure. I am currently working
(and prefer working) in the non Raid configuration. The only reason I was
thinking RAID was as a troubleshooting step.

-I have a series of spare SATA cables but not one with an eSATA on one end
and a regular on the other. The Kingwin controller card has 1 eSATA and 1
regular SATA, so I suppose I could just plug a regular SATA cable in, but I
would not have the "Hot Swap" feature, so I would have to turn computer off
to disconnect/reconnect.

Concerning scaning for hardware changes, I tried this 3 different ways...
Device manager>JMicron controller; Disk drives; and "Add new hardware" from
the control panel.

I have tried starting with the external SATA powered up, then turning on the
computer. No effect.

I do check that the switch on the enclosure switched to SATA when using
SATA, and USB when using USB




--
Jn 3.16


"Anna" wrote: