I`m 5.65 cable length from our enabled exchange, BT says i`m over the limit
for broadband which seems to be 5.50 km here. Isn`t there now such a thing
as Extended ADSL which goes up to 6km? A neighbour `across the way` can get
it ok so how do i go about getting BT to even test it out? My dial-up always
gives me 48k plus so the line can`t be that bad? I`m getting nowhere with
their help desks etc

thanks
Roy.

satscene wrote:
Rate-adaptive ADSL (RADSL) extends the line limits as follows:
o Line length - you must be within 5.5km of the exchange.
o Line Loss - a test for quality and noise, must be less than 55dB.
o Capacitance - the capacitance of the line must be less than 200nF

what has been said is true, how ever:

The distance is not the problem. The line loss and capacitance is the
problem. Lines can be over 5.5Km and still work , and also they can be
under 5.5 and not work. I think the estimated max length is now 6 Km any
way.

I can't remember the name of the order but i think its called a "manual
order", bt will then test the line and not rely on the line length.

hope this helps

Andrew


Rusty wrote:

Rusty wrote:
Rusty I'm afraid that your information is exactly that, RADSL upper limit is
now 60db, with appropiate adjustments to other measurements as well. _BUT_
the 5.5-6km distance is not important it's the line loss & signal to noise
ratio which is important...

Roy I'd suggest you try again with another ISP asking for a manual test on
your line, it may be that you are out of limits (if so then sorry there's
nothing to be done) but it may be that you are very close but not over so it
could pass a manual test whilst failing an automatic one.

As a second thought you haven't stated which ISP you are trying to sign on
for, if it's Tiscalli there's your problem go with another ISP as Tiscalli
do order service levels greater than what there end users ask for...

Kráftéé wrote:

not my limits - they are bt's. I suggest you re-read the op.

"Rusty" <rusty.soft@com> wrote in message
news:vuubnlmuh8ete0@corp.supernews.com...
Whoever gave those limits to the OP was wrong - BT Wholesale changed the
"acceptable" 512K line test result several months ago to <60dB and increased
the line length "guidance" to 6km - though as others have said the distance
isn't really relevant, it is the line quality/SNR readings that really count
and if possible thats what the OP should get hold of from his original ISP.

Regards
Sunil

Rusty wrote:
Suggest you do exactly that, or talk to Mr Peppar who has written the
engineers (nationally used) test software to pass anything up to & including
60db. 55db was the old limit before the advent of RADSL & seeing that all
(yes _ALL_) self installs were RADSL up to the advent of the 1meg home user
service which is being rolled out it does show your information to be
'rusty'...

Sunil Sood wrote:
Ta Sunil, do you live here or have you got a 'real' job???

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 19:32:16 UTC, Rusty <rusty.soft@com> wrote:

Yes, but they aren't BT's limits....the BT limits are now 6.0km/60dB. As
he said you are rusty!

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

Kráftéé wrote:

The old limit before RADSL was 41dB (3.5km). RADSL was introduced for
the 512k service only and the limit increased to 55dB (5.5km). As the OP
said, the Extended Reach trial increased the limit to 60dB (6km).
Remember now?

Bob Eager wrote:
The BT limit for RADSL is 5.5km/55dB. The BT limit for Extended Reach is
6km/60dB.

Rusty wrote:
Seeing as all yes all 512 connection are extended reach are you satisfied
now???

Doubt it very much but never mind, you have been proved to be in error &
I'll rest my case (by the way extended reach & RADSL are much the same
thing)

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:03:06 UTC, Rusty <rusty.soft@com> wrote:

Which is splitting hairs...and indeed you failed to mention it when
asked by the OP about "extended ADSL", simply quoting the 5.5km
limit...highly misleading.

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

Many thanks for the information so far. just a couple of points........ is
RADSL and Extended Reach in operation for all enabled exchanges across the
UK or just some selected ones?
Will the tecchie guy in BT give me those Db and Capacitance figures for my
line or try to fob me off?
I`ve approached both Pipex and Bulldog so far and they`ve told me it`s at
BT`s discretion to enable the line or not and as i`m 5.65 km away it`s
outside the limit.
Also this `manual test`, is this done via their computers or does someone
physically come out and do a test?

thanks again,
Roy. (dial-up ( connection)
"Rusty" <rusty.soft@com> wrote in message
news:vuukilj3babt42@corp.supernews.com...

"Rusty" <rusty.soft@com> wrote in message
news:vuukilj3babt42@corp.supernews.com...
Erm.. no.

The BT limits for RADSL are now 6km/60dB - they no longer use the
"5.5km/55dB" limit at all

BT declared the last "extended reach" trial a success months ago and moved
the RADSL limits..

Even the original "5.5km/55dB" RADSL limits were "extended reach" - BT have
just moved the goalposts a bit further out.

Also, since RADSL was launched a couple of years ago, all 512K lines (even
if installed before that date) are now provisioned on a RADSL basis.

Its only the 1 and 2 MB ADSL lines which are still at the original 41/45dB
limit (which 512K was as well originally)

Regards
Sunil

"satscene" <satscene@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:rmJHb.38567$R6.8856450@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
All exchanges - RADSL and Extended Reach are the same thing.

You won't get an answer directly from BT - you have to ask an ISP you
applied with to see if they would be willing to contact BT and get this
information for you.

A "manual test" just means that if you are being automatically rejected on
the basis of BT's ADSL checker/paper records they will actually actually
carry out a "real" test.

Normally done remotely - at least you are unlikely to see the engineer
unless its borderline and then they may do it outside..

Some ISP's (mainly smaller ones) seem to be more willing to go the extra
length re: agreeing to submit "manual requests" and asking BT Wholesale for
the dB figures etc.

If you have no luck, BT are looking at seeing if it is "technically viable"
to extend the difference further - though don't expect much on this soon.

Your only other choice is if you are a boardline fail, see if BT will accept
a order for a new telephone line which you specify "must be suitable for
ADSL use".

If BT install it (their choice) and its not suitable for ADSL - they will
remove it and you won't have to pay the installation charge for a new line

Regards
Sunil

Bob Eager wrote:
It may be splitting hairs to you, but its the nature of a discussion to
bring out the full answer during the conversation.

satscene wrote:

Sounds like BT are still using the RADSL limits before they got enhanced
by the Extended Reach trial. This is probably because some database at
BT HQ still hasn't been updated.
The best way to persuade BT to look outside of the database is to get a
technically-competent ISP on your side who will request a manual install.
To do this you will have to ring them up until you find one who is
willing to help.
To get the test figures from BT you will probably have to ring BT
Broadband Support and negotiate calmly.

In message <vv14po43u36jf6@corp.supernews.com>, Rusty
<rusty.soft@com.?.invalid> writes
I'm just wondering if this comment is meant as a joke?
Certainly has me ROTFLMFHO



Ring BT ...... calmly .....

;-)
--
__________________________________________________
Personal email for Gareth Jones can be sent to:
'usenet4gareth' followed by an at symbol
followed by 'uk2' followed by a dot
followed by 'net'
__________________________________________________

Gareth Jones wrote:
Even BT can't get thru to BT, let alone calmly......