Hi all,

Why the hell all the adsl ISPs I have seen online ask me my phone
number to check my ADSL availability?

I checked ukonline, wanadoo, zenhome1000.

Am I obliged to get a BT or other provider phone line so that I can put
ADSL and then I can remove my phone line later on?!?

How does it work here in Uk?

I understand (Better saying I know, I do not understand quite well)
that I need to pay the rent of the line or something like that but am I
oblied to make another subscription I dont want to to get the ADSL I
want? Can't they arrange with BT directly?

Do u know a provider that does not care about the phone number for
bringing you ADSL?

Many thanks

Cheers,
Irena

PS The place where I will live does not have Cable otherwise I would
have already chosen.

On 2 Dec 2004 in uk.telecom.broadband, "Irena" wrote:

You can have ADSL service on a line from BT, using any of 50+ ISPs.
You have to pay line rental for voice service, to BT, before they'll
allow ADSL service to run on the line (even if you never use it for a
voice call, you must rent that service).

In some places, there are other firms (ISP/Telco) which can provide a
line under a different scheme, called LLU (Local Loop Unbundling) which
means they rent the line from BT and then charge you a monthly fee for
the line. This is likely to be a more expensive option and is not as
widely available. So if you gave your postcode, someone might be able
to help identify what services you could use (or see www.samknows.com )

I am sure someone will correct me if the details I gave are wrong :-)

Maybe you should explain (a) what service (speed) you want, and
(b) how long you want to use it. There are some deals for cheaper
line rental from a company called IT plc (www.itplc.com) but not all
of their service is cheap and they have higher installation fees I think.

Good luck. Peter Morgan.





--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

On 02/12/04, 19:47:41, "Irena" <italianculture@hotmail.com> wrote regarding
ADSL availability check with phone number?!?:


ADSL is telephone line based technology, so you need a telephone line in
your house/work to get ADSL. The ADSL providers check your telephone line
to see if it is of sufficient quality to be eligible for ADSL. Hence the
need for your telephone number.

Regards Ian Donaldson

Newtownards
Northern Ireland
ian@dsd-tech.net

In message <h1uuq0lkcdrbd2906uivuddiim5f5rt47c@4ax.com>
Peter M <us-mail@rocketmail.com> wrote:

That's one way of looking at it, I suppose, but 'rental for voice
service' is perhaps a bit misleading/confusing in the context of the
question.

You pay line rental only for the line.

As the originator of voice/fax calls has to pay for them, incoming calls
are 'free'.

Any other use of the line is charged on top of line rental, whether
ADSL, outgoing voice/fax calls, or stray 'services' such as wake-up
calls.

ADSL is 'always on', i.e. the charge is X per month (and included in the
charge made by whatever 'Internet Service Provider' is chosen).

Outgoing voice/fax calls, and 'services', are billed/charged by BT: if
you don't have/make any such calls, there are no such charges.

--
Peter Duck <pduck@zetnet.co.uk>

Peter Duck wrote:

Do u mean that I can choose a "formula" that allows me to rent the line
only? And on top of that I can choose my ISP?

I have not seen anything like that in http://www.bt.co.uk

They simply offer voice calls formulas.
Or did I miss something here...

Thanks for your reply
Irena

In message <1102175500.410795.82120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups. com>
"Irena" <italianculture@hotmail.com> wrote:

As I thought I'd explained, what you call 'voice call formulas' are
charged for in two parts - line rental and <calls made from that number
+ any 'services' used>.

If you make no voice/fax calls from that number, and don't use any of
the 'services', there will be no charges apart from the line-rental.
There's not a separate 'formula' for this - it just results from the way
in which a 'normal' line is billed.

(You may as well have a phone plugged-in, for incoming calls and in case
you need to make 'emergency' (999/112) calls: I half-remember that it's
nominally a 'contract requirement' that you should have a phone capable
of emergency-calls.
Neither 'incoming' nor 999/112 calls are charged-for, but probably few
people are well-disciplined, or motivated, enough to never make any
other outgoing calls just to avoid the charges!)

And 'Yes, you can/do choose your ISP separately'
You pay the ISP for ADSL, but (a large) part of these charges (including
'installation') is paid by the ISP to BT - you don't pay BT directly for
their role in carrying ADSL to/from you.

--
Peter Duck <pduck@zetnet.co.uk>

Peter Duck wrote:
You explained quite well your point, Peter.

Sorry if I insist, but if I go to visit the BT site, I find services
for home that include phone calls too. I have not found a service that
says: "line rental" only.

For example: BT together, BT together internationals, BT boradband;
they all include phone calls or the Internet in the monthly package. I
don't think these services are free, they are included as a "flat
tarif" on top of this misterious "line rental" tarif that I don't see
it alone anywhere.

But it can be that I don't know where to look for it.

Maybe you can help me in finding the right webpage...

I don't want a phone line because I use a VOIP software on my computer
that works quite well when you have broadband and is cheaper than any
other traditional telco operators (that I have seen so far).
Thanks a lot for your reply.
Irena

In news:1102241498.961499.312640@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com,
Irena <italianculture@hotmail.com> opined very noisily:
http://www.bt.com/Choices/calls.jsp?...K&obsOID=34207

BT option 1 is the nearest you can get to " Line only" nowadays the Extras
are " Free"

http://www.bt.com/btcom_redirectLink...0&obsType=LINK

Taken from The above link




Connecting a new residential phone line
The connection charge is £74.99*. However, if you are a new
customer and your new home is already connected to BT from the previous
occupiers, this charge is not likely to apply.

New customers - Taking over an existing BT phone line
If you take over an existing BT phone line, there is no charge.

If your household was previously connected to BT and you are out
of your 12 month contract, we will reconnect a BT phone line completely
free. If damage has occurred to your BT line or socket, charges will apply.
Customers who have been disconnected for non payment of a BT bill will be
charged £35.25 for reconnection. Charges apply to reconnect from a previous
Home Highway line. Terms and conditions apply.

Order now >>


For more information about connecting to BT for the first time,
please contact 0800 800 150

New customers - Call levels
This is a free service which removes the need to pay a deposit
for virtually all new customers.

New customers will be asked to agree with us a quarterly call
level which represents the maximum value of calls they would expect to make
in a quarter (including VAT but excluding any call discounts).

If the call level is reached before the normal quarterly bill is
due to be sent out, BT will contact the customer to agree a course of
action.



So it appears that you can agree a level of quarterly calls. In your case
you would go for Zero or the minimum that BT will allow.
If you don't use the Phone you will not pay any more than the £10.50 which
effectively IS the line rental

if you want to look at the following URL

http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/h...&obsNoSee=true

This is the BT price list --- - Enjoy
--

Yddap
Remove guts to reply

Yddap wrote:
BT should allow me to pay Zero. Why shouldn't they?


That's what I suspected :-)
Description of Option 1 says:
----
Just £10.50* per month if paying by Monthly Payment Plan or Direct
Debit, includes rental of your first line
----
IMHO, writing "includes rental of your first line" does not mean that
this *is* the rental of the line, but that there is something added on
top of it. So to say, extras are not free IMHO.

As I see it, BT carges you compulsorly x £ per months (could also be
50% or more, who knows?) as flat rate for taking advantages of a
discount on national/local calls - either if you want it or not.

But they will never tell you like this and will never say how much it
is. I call this abuse of an ex monopolist. But it is a common practice
in many european countries.

It would be interesting knowing how the consumer association sees this.
Thanks for the links.

Cheers,
Irena

Yddap wrote:
BT should allow me to pay Zero. Why shouldn't they?


That's what I suspected :-)
Description of Option 1 says:
----
Just £10.50* per month if paying by Monthly Payment Plan or Direct
Debit, includes rental of your first line
----
IMHO, writing "includes rental of your first line" does not mean that
this *is* the rental of the line, but that there is something added on
top of it. So to say, extras are not free IMHO.

As I see it, BT carges you compulsorly x £ per months (could also be
50% or more, who knows?) as flat rate for taking advantages of a
discount on national/local calls - either if you want it or not.

But they will never tell you like this and will never say how much it
is. I call this abuse of an ex monopolist. But it is a common practice
in many european countries.

It would be interesting knowing how the consumer association sees this.
Thanks for the links.

Cheers,
Irena

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:24:32 UTC, "Irena" <italianculture@hotmail.com>
wrote:

This was discussed at length earlier in the year, maybe in uk.telecom.
BT removed the 'basic' tariff and moved everyone (including me) to
Option 1.

It was a pound or two cheaper before, and in addition there were some
'included minutes'. No-one was particularly happy about the change.

It is believed that the reason for the change was that the basic
economic charge for a line was too low, and had previously been
subsidised by call income. Now that most people (who know, anyway) use
indirect providers to route all their calls, BT was not getting any call
income to offset the rather low (in their opinion) line charge. It was
hoped, I guess, that people would use BT more for calls if they had
Option 1.

I still use an indirect provider and pay BT the basic Option 1 charge
and no more.
--
[Davism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. (also known as Gee-axia)]

On 5 Dec 2004 in uk.telecom.broadband, "Irena" wrote:

BT moved most residential users to the BT Together Option 1 service in
June or July this year. It is 1 pound more than the old "without these
discounts" line rental, if paid monthly by direct debit or similar (if
you get monthly bills and pay at a bank, that costs even more). Some
people were unhappy (those who use other services, such as 18866.com
for daytime calls, or have signed up for services from other firms,
like TalkTalk, which gives free off-peak calls and charges no monthly
fee). However, BT argued that *most people would make a saving* and
it is also the case that they reduced costs for these discount schemes
(only by 1 pound) so there could be many millions of customers who paid
the higher price, who would agree they made a saving (even if they did
not know they could get cheaper calls from other firms).

More important, the regulator, OFCOM, allowed them to do this.

Unfortunately, you cannot have the line for just ADSL. Peter M.





--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP is UK Free Software Network <www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

On 5 Dec 2004 in uk.telecom.broadband, "Bob Eager" wrote:

The increase from 25 to 28 pounds a month on my Highway service means I
closed that account completely. I have two lines with ADSL, so still a
fair amount spent on line rental alone, but their increase means losing
300 pounds (pre price hike) of charges from me, each year. Peter M.



--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP is UK Free Software Network <www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

Peter M wrote:
Tooooo bad...:-(
Irena

PS I guess...is the regulator the body that controls fair competition
is respected?

Peter M wrote:

Sorry, I'm lost. You pay now 28 £ for a broadband connection (2
broadband conn?!?) with a provider that allowed you to close completely
the account from BT? [which bandwidth?]
BT is loosing 300 £/year from you?

Irena

On 5 Dec 2004 11:01:52 -0800, in uk.telecom.broadband,
"Irena" <italianculture@hotmail.com> wrote:

In January I had 2 ordinary phone lines (voice lines, which are needed for
ADSL), and 1 'Home Highway' line, which gave me 2x 64k channels. A box on
the wall allows 2 ordinary phones to be used, and ISDN equipment too. The
ISDN connections allow a proper 64k link to an ISP, not 40-50 kbps one way
and about 33 kbps the other. So I was paying 9.50 + 9.50 + 25.00

In the summer the charges went to 10.50 + 10.50 + 28.00 so I closed that
last, most expensive, account and only pay 10.50 + 10.50 now. BT made
us pay more, and lost some of my business/payments as a result.

Home Highway is not as fast as ADSL but allows the user to dial any ISP
they want. One of my ISPs was in the USA, so I could dial up and get a
'reasonable' connection that way if I needed to. Peter Morgan.



--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP is UK Free Software Network <www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

On 5 Dec 2004 in uk.telecom.broadband, "Irena" wrote:

a) they are often not respected but

b) they are not the body that controls "fair competition" as there is a
different one for that, but that one would say "if OFCOM accepts this
change, we won't complain" I think... :-( Peter.



--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP is UK Free Software Network <www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

Peter M wrote:

Ok. Complicated story. :-)

However, I don't think you need 2 voice lines for ADSL.
It's sufficient 1 and a modification at your telephone exchange. 2
voice lines are for ISDN.

Ciao
Irena

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:15:53 UTC, "Irena" <italianculture@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Yes, but if you look back you'll see that he has two lots of ADSL. Hence
the two voice lines..

--
[Davism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. (also known as Gee-axia)]

In message <1102241498.961499.312640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups .com>
"Irena" <italianculture@hotmail.com> wrote:

Evidently not ...

No, there isn't nowadays one that says that (in fact the term 'line
rental' no longer appears even on the bills), but ...

The most basic BT Together, Option 1, no longer includes any free (or
even genuinely discounted) outgoing calls, or anything else beyond the
line-rental: its 'flat tariff' therefore *is* the line-rental, with
nothing 'on top'.

No, there isn't one.

You may have no intention of using 'voice' (even the free incoming and
999/112 calls), but you do need a 'voice line' as the whole point of
ADSL was/is that it's a way of carrying 'broadband' data over the
millions of existing such lines.

--
Peter Duck <pduck@zetnet.co.uk>