Why is broadband described as "always-on"? It's as much as always-on
as a dialup connection is if you leave the modem powered and don't drop
the line.

When I power up my computer, I turn on my Netgear router. It connects
to my broadband provider and logs on using my username and password.
How is that different to a modem connection? OK there's no dialing and
I suppose thats a few seconds saved. My computer probably takes longer
to boot up than that.

Unless, oh no surely not. Are people so dumb that they leave their
routers powered up and connected even when they aren't using them!?

What a waste of power.

Lets say that the power supply is 7.5v 1A. So thats 7.5W
Assuming 8 million broadband users gives us 60 MegaWatts - 60,000,000
watts for potentialy doing nothing. Thats 120 wind turbines of the type
similar to that at Nympsfield near Stroud.

No wonder we are heading towards the environmental abyss.

On the 7 Jun 2005 08:34:28 -0700, Rob uttered forth the following...

Rob wrote:
Because in most situations it is a permanent connection to the net -
i.e. allways on.

Well I leave my router on because I have no way of knowing when emails
are coming to my system or when I am going to need to collect files
remotely from my system.

The price of e-commerce?

In article <1118158467.994362.181830@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups .com>, Rob
<mr_horton@yahoo.com> writes
I've no quarrel with this argument, it saves cash and air pollution.

However, some of us have our PCs running 24/7. They are doing Fast
Forrier Transform calculations (lots of them), and the results are sent
to The Space Sciences Laboratory at Berkeley University. This needs
always on internet connections.

Going off at a tangent ...

As to heading to the environmental abyss ... I think the Green Lobby has
politicians and the uneducated general public on a scam. NOTE: The
politicians like it as they can raise many more taxes on the rest of us,
under the guise of changing our behaviour (which I agree about).

Why -

Historically, the UK was in a cold spell 400 years ago. Indeed the
Thames river froze regularly, and Christmas fayres were held on the ice.
If global warming had been an issue then, as we headed towards today's
temperatures, then blind panic would have been the rule of the day
(based on today's mass hysteria already surfacing).

Again historically, 10,000 - 15,000 years ago the UK was under 2 miles
of ice, in the European ice age (third or fourth one that has been found
and recorded).

Similarly, geologically the UK was recorded as a tropical rain forest,
full of dinosaurs, about 200 million years ago.

Clearly global temperature changes occur, both to warm and cool on a
number of cyclical patterns.

Geologically when a volcano like Mount St Helens blows the amount of
green house gas (carbon dioxide and methane) emitted exceeds mankind's
green house emissions by several magnitudes. This means volcanic
greenhouse gas emissions exceed that generated by man, both historically
and in to the foreseeable future.

I do concede volcanos also emit sulphur compounds, and sulphur dioxide,
which has the effect of cooling the atmosphere at the same time.

One other point that is never mentioned in the global warming discussion
is that the sun is now about 1% warmer than 100+ years ago. A hotter sun
means global warming.

I am not denying there is a weather warming effect going on. I also
think that new technology should be cleaner than the technologies it
replaces, and this trend should be made accelerated.

I do however, think the arguments for global warming (a natural and
cyclical process) is based on a false premise that "it is all due to
human activity".

However, we need to protect the environment as this is the only world we
know we can exist on. So I say ... "we should not *shit* on our own
doorstep".

--
John Clark Constipation is the thief of time, but diaorrehia waits
for no man!!

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:34:28 +0100, Rob <mr_horton@yahoo.com> wrote:


So speaks the classic "I want to sound knowledgeable but am actually
proving I don't have a clue" nerd

If, as you imply, you only use one PC, why have you got a router? Use a
simple ADSL modem and you'll use even less juice

Believe it or not, some of us have a number of PCs in our homes requiring
internet access at differing times of the day/night. The whole point of a
router is to route data between PCs and the internet. Not much use if you
have to rush around turning it on and off all the time.

Don't tell me your one of those who thinks that if the router is turned on
24/7, some nasty person will creep up the phone line and infect your
turned-off computer with a virus?




--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:34:28 UTC, "Rob" <mr_horton@yahoo.com> wrote:

I always turn mine off when I'm not using it.

Which is never. I run a mail server, two DNS servers (for several
domains), an FTP server and a web server.

The power the router uses is the least of my worries! But I'm looking at
a low power firewall machine...

--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

"

Historically, the UK was in a cold spell 400 years ago. Indeed the
Thames river froze regularly, and Christmas fayres were held on the
ice.
If global warming had been an issue then, as we headed towards today's
temperatures, then blind panic would have been the rule of the day
(based on today's mass hysteria already surfacing).
"

old cannard about the thames freezing over .
the reason it froze over was because the old London Bridge had such
small arches that little water could flow thru them ,so the flow was
slow enough for the river to freeze.
it acted like a dam on the river flow .

In article <1118158467.994362.181830@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups .com>,
"Rob" <mr_horton@yahoo.com> writes:
I don't use routers or the Internet directly, its my computers which do. I
have programmed them to do a variety of things which require Internet access.
Fortunately I don't use an operating systems which requires a human chained to
each computer for them to get on and do useful work for me.

--
Tim Clark

On 7 Jun 2005 08:34:28 -0700, "Rob" <mr_horton@yahoo.com> wrote:

don't forget to allow for the reduced heating load due to the router
heat output.

Phil
--
Tiscali - dialup speeds at Broadband prices, see
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist...&Board=tiscali

AOL - the unlimited ISP of choice for heavy downloaders.

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:10:42 GMT, "Tim Clark"
<Timothy.Clark@btinternet.com> wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:03:32 UTC, Don Carter <don@mrl.DROPTHIS.info>
wrote:

Lots of options. After all, Linux is just a jumped up UNIX wannabe.

For example, there's MacOS. Or FreeBSD (which I use sometimes). Or
something else (which I also use sometimes).

Linux is not the only (or always the best) alternative. And a properly
set up UNIX (or wannabe) system doesn't need looking after. I don't go
newr my BSD box in (literally) months; I just use it from afar (well,
upstairs).
--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

On 7 Jun 2005 08:34:28 -0700, "Rob" <mr_horton@yahoo.com> wrote:


Hey, I know - let's all cut our engines when we're waiting at the
traffic lights, or when we're rolling downhill and don't need the
engine power. That will save a trillion barrels of oil being pumped
out of the ground - EVERY HOUR!

I've just saved the world with my insightful idea, everyone.

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:43:05 UTC, Muxton <nobody@this.address> wrote:

And those of us with two Jags should change to a Toyota Prius...

Flap, flap, flap, oink...

--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

In article <1118166419.034909.258540@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>, none
<oplegg@yahoo.co.uk> writes
Despite the low flow of water the temperature had to be low enough to
freeze it to a depth that could stand substantial traffic. That has not
during the last century except the winters of 1949 and 1963/64.
--
John Clark Constipation is the thief of time, but diaorrehia waits
for no man!!

Dave {Reply Address in.sig} <noone$$@llondel.org> wrote:
It's worth considering some other boxes that can often sub.
For example, the WRT54G has (IIRC) 16M ram, 8M flash (new versions) and
a 200Mhz processor, and runs linux.
All for some 50 quid, and it does wireless too.
I've got esniper (ebay auction sniping tool) running 24*7 on mine.
P200 = maybe 40W.
40W*24*365 = about 400Kwh, or about the total cost of above device.

Quieter and smaller too.

On 7 Jun 2005 08:34:28 -0700, "Rob" <mr_horton@yahoo.com> wrote:

because it is.

Well thats true, if daft. And FWIW the phone companies typically won't
let you do that - you get forcibly disconnected after a certain time.
And of course you'd be unable to get phone calls at the same time,
whereas with ADSL you could be downloading 24x7 and still talk to your
mum.

On the other hand, my router stays on all the time, so I am literally
always on. Why are you turning it off? Seems pointless to me, and
bloody annoying for the wife and kids, who use the internet during the
day while I'm on it evenings.

Oh, FWIW its less than the cost of a 60w lightbulb, such as the one
most people leave on in the bathroom all night. And much less than the
cost of the 500W security light they leave on all night blinding the
cats, or the TV thats on standby, or the fridge, etc.

its more like 0.2A @ 240V -> 50w, but there you go (I'm reading the
label on my router PSU)

Compared to the cost of running a 4x4 in town, or driving even a mini
2 miles to the station, its peanuts. Worry about the important stuff.

Mark McIntyre <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote:
When I had Homehighway (effectively 2 numbers on one line, 64K digital
connection) and surftime, I was essentially online 6PM-8AM, and weekends,
all the time, for months.
(with demon)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:22:57 GMT, Mark McIntyre in message
<news:m37ca1lv0eh9hligjrbib0g3v7rs0rf7g7@4ax.com > wrote:

Well mine is connected to the same power socket as both the main computers.
When they are turned off, that gets turned off at the socket.

On the very rare occasions I want to use my laptop without also wanting
network access to at least one of the other computers, I will just turn on
at the socket for that time.

I see no point whatsoever in leaving the router permanently powered on, for
me. For some, there may be sufficient reason, although I suspect in most
cases it is just done "because I can".



You mean the one some wastrels leave on all night.

I think most people turn all lights off when they go to bed.

I think it is more than the TV on standby, and the fridge is in use, so is
not being wasted in the same way.



--
Alex Heney
Global Villager
Don't let the computer bugs bite!
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTPLUSDOTcom

Rob wrote:

8 million broadband users, but probably 7.9 million of them using a USB modem that
goes off with the PC.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply

Rob wrote:
Because the connection _is_ always on, until it's turned off at the
exchange.

Which often gets cut by ISP's after a couple of hours.

My router is always on because there are more than one computer using
the router/WAP/Internet connection.

It is being used almost 24/7

Wrong.

Bugger, must remember to worry about that.


--
The Caretaker .........