BT sneaks in 'stealth price rise'
By Tim Richardson
Published Wednesday 5th January 2005 18:19 GMT

BT has been accused of slipping in a "stealth price rise" of up to 110
per cent for its telephone customers.

At the moment, BT's more expensive daytime tariff runs between 8am and
6pm. Its cheaper evening rate runs from 6pm to 8am.

than evening rates. BT insists that the changes will have a "minor
impact on a vast majority of customers".

But independent tariff comparison outfit uSwitch.com reckons that three
million punters will end up paying more for phone calls first thing in
the morning.

"Those making local and national calls during the extended 6am-8am
period, the cost of their calls will increase by 110 per cent, while
customers making mobile calls during 6am-8am will see the cost of their
calls increase by 48 per cent," said uSwitch.com in a statement.

uSwitch.com's Jon Miller added: "Despite BT's attempts to mask the
increase in calling charges by highlighting earlier price reductions,
this is effectively a stealth price rise.

"The fact remains that consumers will still be charged a minimum
£31.50 a quarter for line rental before they've even made a call.
There are cheaper suppliers in the market, switching is easy and you
can make significant savings by shopping around."

A spokesman for BT played down the changes claiming that three quarters
of its customers don't make phone calls that early in the morning. He
accepted it did amount to a price rise for around 15 per cent of BT's
customers, but denied it was done stealthily. ®

<hairydog@despammed.com> wrote in message
news7hot09iscd7qtp99lauvvtgir635q1vft@4ax.com...
Just looked at the 18866 website.

Are they telling me a UK national call will only cost me 1p?

For how long can I make a call? Is there a point within the call, where I
will start to incur a further charge?

How come they can make money from these low call charges?

I am suspicious to say the least.... but rather interested in signing up for
UK daytime calls....

Anyone not happy with their service?

Is there any risk in signing up?

John

John,

I have been a 18866 customer for a few months now and have NO problems with
the service. I can't see any catches.

Like yourself, I don't see how they can make money; but whilst the
offer/tariffs are there, I will continue to take benefit from them.

Paul R

"John" <3456349845@mail2me.com> wrote in message
news:343evgF44etrdU1@individual.net...

"John" <3456349845@mail2me.com> wrote in message
news:343evgF44etrdU1@individual.net...
Yes, for geographic calls from a landline using the 18866 prefix. If you use
their other access numbers they charge more.

Don't think so. They've been discussed to death in uk.telecom, have a look at
the google archives.

It's a mystery. The conspiracy theorists say BT are behind them.

Personally I think it's all just clever marketing. They have unbeatable headline
rates but some of their rates are considerably more expensive than BT. A bit
like supermarkets have loss leaders on "core" items, ie the items people are
most likely to do price comparions on.

As I've posted before - if you were to make 10 landline calls and one call to a
Vodaphone on a weekday evening, you'd be better off using BT than 18866!

Obviously if you look at the rates carefully and pick and choose which calls you
route via them, you'll always save. But if you just make the assumption they are
cheaper than BT, you might end up paying more!

I think most customers are happy with them.

They insist on payment by continuous card authority. This can't be cancelled by
the customer (like a DD can), and can be a pain to sort out if things go wrong.
I've been advised by a friend who works in banking never to sign a CCA. They say
on their web site they are looking into allowing DD payments but they've been
saying that for ages.

--
Andy

"Andy Pandy" <spamspamspamspamspamspamspamspam@wonderful.spam > wrote in message
news:41dd1438$0$45620$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
Sorry should have wrote "one 10 minute call" to a Vodaphone.

--
Andy

On 05 Jan 2005 in uk.telecom.broadband, Iain wrote:

Seconded. I am happy with 18866, 1899 and TalkTalk for many free off-peak
calls, and curse the day BT forced me to use "Option 1" on the grounds the
majority of customers would save (ie the ones still not using cheaper ones
and with blinkers on to the possibility, despite reports in Which? etc for
a few years, and newspaper articles). When they pushed up my monthly line
rental (2x DEL and 1x HH) by a fiver and I lost the call allowance, my way
of reacting was to cancel the HH (so at least they lost 250 quid a year).




--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP : UK Free Software Network <http://www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

"Peter M" <us-mail@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:cubqt0tfb2c8371neai281tgdfg53rbpg1@4ax.com...
It's hard to say whether or not BT did the right thing or not.

It is certainly true that all other operators were boasting how much you'd
save against BT - typically 80% on your phone calls because they always
compared to the basic line package which in all fairness, nobody uses unless
like you they dial 1899/18866 or sit on TalkTalk etc.

But even so, 1899/18866, TalkTalk and all the rest boast what a saving you
make, implying that BT is stupidly expensive, when infact this is very
misleading as most people would sit on BT Together Option 1. If anything,
it is the other companies that are sneaky in comparing.

The question is really, can BT/NTL or anyone else justify charging
£10.50/month for line rental. Is this cost justified? At some point in the
future, the other companies will be able to takeover this part of the
charging as well to make costs a lot more transparent.

AMO

On 6 Jan 2005 in uk.telecom.broadband, "AMO" wrote:

In the case of TalkTalk not that long ago they were comparing their talk
plans with the various BT Options and other firms, so you could see what
was being charged when they charged a fee for their free off-peak calls.

Now they compare theirs (free evening and weekend) with others which have
charges (in the main, I know there's some one.tel deal for weekend calls)
while the basic BT Option has each off-peak call charged at least the 5p
minimum.

The Tele2 TV adverts have been changed to compare their 2.5p (or is it 2p)
rate with BT's 3p rate, when previously it was the 7.91p rate from BT.

I just checked... looking at the comparison on the Tele2 web site (I'm
not and have never been a customer, but have a second line and might be
fairly soon!) I see they offer their 'option 2' service free for a year
(see http://www.tele2.co.uk/TariffStandard.aspx ) if you sign up before
the end of the month. Phone calling patterns are quite varied and they
are clearly hoping to maintain business by waiving their 6.00 fee (from
the way I read it, those who sign up will in future be charged 3.95 for
the service, presumably to maintain loyalty among those who do sign up,
rather than jumping to the next firm with free call plans). Also, they
have higher charges for international calls (everyone seems cheaper for
such calls than BT, unless you pay BT extra for a 'discount' scheme) so
the bulk of their income will depend on mobile and international! PGM



--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP : UK Free Software Network <http://www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

"Andy Pandy" <spamspamspamspamspamspamspamspam@wonderful.spam > wrote in
message news:41dd1626$0$47266$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
So if I sign up with 18866, I just pay BT the normal line rental and nothing
for calls (unless I choose to route a call via BT?)

Assuming this, as I understand that I can (lets say) 5 national UK daytime
calls of (lets say 30 minutes each), each of which would cost me just 1p ??
A total cost of this activity would be just 5p??? Is this for real, or have
a gone daft? Thats 150 mniutes of daytime national calling for just 5
pence? I must have made a mistake?? Can someone comment?

John?

Do 18866 charge for anything else other than the 1p connection charge? I
would only be using such a service for either local or national UK
geographcal calls. I never ring mobile and abroad.

John <3456349845@mail2me.com> wrote:

[]
Yes.


It's true, yes.

No.

Shouldn't this thread be in uk.telecom instead? (Well, you can use the
service from the mobile, I certainly do.)

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn"
<this_address_is_for_spam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1gpz7lk.1ksw1dr1hcd6vrN%this_address_is_for_s pam@yahoo.com...
Have you had any problems with 18866 David?
How long after signup does it take before you can use the service?
And finally, if you decided not to use the service, for a few months, I
assume they wouldn't/couldn't bill you for anything? I almost sounds too
good to be true... Im currently on BT Together option 2, and this coupled
with network services and quite a few national daytime calls is costing me
between 80 - 100 pounds a quarter at present.

Thanks...
Yes I guess it should be in another NG : - (

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:51:45 +0000, hairydog@despammed.com wrote:


Many, many people. That's what BT are relying on

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:38:42 -0000, "John" <3456349845@mail2me.com>
wrote:

you seem to have grasped it, from online bill:

date time duration cost
18-11-2004 10:36:16 0:16:54 0.01
27-08-2004 11:19:46 0:00:47 0.01
18-11-2004 20:31:36 0:07:34 0.01
03-09-2004 10:21:55 0:05:58 0.01
25-11-2004 15:54:06 0:15:01 0.01

Phil
--
Splenda - the only sweetener made from chlorine :-)

John <3456349845@mail2me.com> wrote:

[]
A few, but not many. It's usually very reliable.

Almost immediately.

They shouldn't, no. If you search google, you'll see there have been
threads where people have worried about the continuous credit authority,
but it doesn't bother me, and so far I'm not aware of any problems.

I changed the follow-up to uk.telecom.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

"Andy Pandy" <spamspamspamspamspamspamspamspam@wonderful.spam > wrote in
message news:41dd1438$0$45620$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
The only way to stop CCA payments IMO is to tell the card issuer that
you've lost the card, they will then cancel the card and all payments
from it are stopped and you will get a new card with a different number.
Regards Mike.

--
North Wales should be independent from South Wales.

On 6 Jan 2005, "John" wrote:

Not David but I for one have had no problems. 18866 was charging at 1p a
minute until early September (my bills were regularly around a tenner a
month for daytime calls, nearly all of them to landlines, and a few to
the USA at 2p/min. I have recently signed up with 1899 (which has a 3p
connection charge, but lower cost daytime calls to mobiles at 10p/min
where 18866 charges 12p/min, and at 0.5p/min for the USA). Incidentally
I have an Orchid Electronics 'least cost router' which is programmed via
the phone, or more easily, using software from the firm and downloading
a kind of spreadsheet, then uploading it back to Orchid and getting the
dialler to 'phone home' and pull the programming info off their server.

In the case of 1899, I tried it within 10 minutes (it was a quiet time
of the night) and got my customer number off their 0808 control number
(you can do a number of things via the phone, though I've mainly used
the web based facilities of 18866) but they say you should be set up
within an hour.

They seem to bill either on reaching a certain level (I guess my regular
tenner a month usage was above their threshold, but with the drop in call
charges and still fair use, the last bill was in November

If you compare BT Together option 2 with either TalkTalk or Tele2 you will
find you are paying a fee while neither of them charges new customers (for
a year from signup, then there are fees, but lower than BT, and probably a
whole range of other services will be worth considering at that time). If
you sign up to Tele2 at present they give you 10 quid (presumably it's not
as a cheque but a credit to the account) while TalkTalk will give you 20,
if you are recommended to join (I'll be happy to do so, just send me an
e-mail with your mail address if you choose to go that way, and I'd get
20 quid too :-) You really need to consider the destination for every
call if you are pushing to spend less, and the dialler unit does that for
me, though I have to override it for just a few calls, when the recipient
is also a TalkTalk customer as calls from TT to TT user are free any time.

18866 1p connection account control/enquiry on 0808 170 170 8

1899 3p connection account control/enquiry on 0808 170 1899

cross-posted to include, and follow-up set to uk.telecom Peter Morgan.



--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP : UK Free Software Network <http://www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

<hairydog@despammed.com> wrote:

Just out of interest, have you _never_ had a problem? I don't think I've
had a problem with them for a long time, but there were the occasional
times calls wouldn't go through. When I checked uk.telecom then, it
seemed a system wide problem. It rarely persisted for long though-
around an hour at most IIRC.

BTW, I didn't consider these bad problems, and I've had it happen with
almost any other telecom provider. And, as I said, it's been smooth in
recent months.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 in uk.telecom.broadband, I wrote:

I meant to add... (but had to use the browser to check the details...)

The bills show the 1p fees, all totalled up by line (at one time I had 4
numbers which could be billed on 18866) and the invoice shows that as the
final figure, so my current calls, totalling 150p, will be 1.xx + xx VAT
to total 150p

My calls are mostly to UK landlines and range from 3 to 64 minutes with
a total of 560 minutes so far (presumably they will debit my card once
either a couple more months have passed as the lowest amount they've
billed to date was around 4.50 but with lower spending on the UK calls
it will be while to reach that... 150 took 6 weeks inc a few mobile (OK
very brief, mobile voicemail) calls over the holiday period and some to
the USA which will in future be going on 1899. All in all a service
I cannot fault (though some are more concerned about the CCA aspect).



--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP : UK Free Software Network <http://www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

On 06 Jan 2005 , in uk.telecom.broadband, Iain wrote:

I got onto 18866 a bit later, but also very pleased, one year on.

I have only had 5 or 6 'problem' calls (Korea Telecom message or no
ringing) and a small number of engaged tones. Having some other to
fall back on (1615, 1639 in my case, and now 1899) plus TalkTalk or
even *horror* paying BT for a call :-) means there's no big deal if
there is a short period where 18866 isn't working quite right.



--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP : UK Free Software Network <http://www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

I too use 18866 and I have also signed up with TalkTalk
(just so the calls don't fallback to BT)

CPW sent me a letter telling me that my cutover date was today (6th)
How can I confirm that it is active?

I know someone who has another CPS service, and it is not possible to dial
BT 1XX numbers
like 150 or 154 without a 1280 prefix. Is that what I should expect from
TalkTalk?

Its difficult to know what's happening because 1280 allows calls to go
through even if there is no CPS on the line.


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%