In the Zen Internet knowledge base they state that one should always
connect the ADSL gateway to the master socket if at all possible so as
to minimise signal degradation through longer cabling. But my master
socket is in the hall and inconvenient for the computer which is
upstairs. So I intend to connect the Thomson gateway to an extension
socket (every major room has a phone socket - it's a new house).

What level of degradation might I expect?

MM

"MM" <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8snga31cf8p917agkhiqkphke7q2dinpgj@4ax.com...
How long is a piece of string. I have to connect through a twenty foot
extension lead and the service is fine. I suggest you try it and see.
--
Keith Willcocks
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)

"MM" <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8snga31cf8p917agkhiqkphke7q2dinpgj@4ax.com...
Anything from zero to a lot - depends on your local circumstances.

Zen's advice is sound, but chances are it will work fine from an
extension if your wiring is in good order. You can shift the odds in
your favour by disconnecting the bell wire, and letting the
microfilters take care of the ringing. This will improve your SNR -
see last item at:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm

Martin

MM wrote:

How long is a piece of string ?

I suggest you try the router connected in both places and look at the connection
statistics.

Graham

GM6TRS wrote:

Removing the bell wire can improve your SNR even when you're using the master
socket too.

Graham

MM wrote:
If your extensions are not isolated, it wont make much difference, as it is
unlikely to work from your master socket, as it would from the extensions.
Signal degradation is certainly a problem on flat cheaper cables.

The advice to use the mastersocket is more for their convenience, as
troubleshooting, by isolating the extensions (unscrewing the bottom half of
the faceplate and putting the adsl cable into the socket behind, is much
easier.

To be honest, the bulk of problems people have with adsl are within the
house, rather then the bt managed part of the line.

Gaz

Keith Willcocks wrote:
The issue tends to be, when the line is marginal (or, on a max service, and
wanting to optomise speed).

Gaz

"MM" <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8snga31cf8p917agkhiqkphke7q2dinpgj@4ax.com...
My house came with built-in wiring to sockets in various parts of the house:
each spur is probably about 50 feet long. I also got BT to install another
spur (about 15 feet) to a room that didn't have a phone socket, and that's
where my router is normally connected.

The difference in the figures between the normal socket and the test socket
in the master socket is almost unmeasurable, and at the end of one of the
50-feet spurs I only see a worsening of about 1 dB. Mind you, my figures are
good in the first place because I'm only a few hundred metres from the
exchange.

My figures (for the normal socket) are:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 15.5 db 4.5 db
Noise Margin 14.8 db 24.0 db


Interestingly, the stats have got worse since I was first upgraded to 8
Mbps: originally I got:

Line Attenuation: 6.5/6.0
Noise Margin: 30.3/30.0

kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk declared for all the world to hear...
Depends entirely on the quality of cabling, and since it's not visible
you'll simply have to suck it and see.
--
Regards
Jon

GM6TRS wrote:
There's a new faceplate out now which filters (RF choke) just the bell
wire & so removes the need to disconnect the bell wire. Only one
problem.....getting your hands on one as they are still fairly new, a
good clue is to check to see whether the socket has got Openreach
emblazoned across the top, they're the ones with the Rf choke in them.

Kraftee wrote:

An excellent move.

Then again, how many modern phones even need external bell capacitors ?

Graham

On 27 Jul, 02:31, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:


quite a lot. I would say it is 50/50 +/- 10

phones with power supplies or from international brands are less
likely too need the 3rd wire but its difficult to predict accurately.

A move to 2-wire systems would be a good idea, for all new
installations and new phones. The only people that would get caught
out would be those taking an old 3-wire phone into a 2-wire system and
the solution is a simple adaptor containing a capacitor (eg an ADSL
microfilter).

Phil

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:53:56 +0100, Jon <spam@jonparker.plus.com>
wrote:

Well, thanks everyone for the useful replies. I have in the past few
minutes ordered Zen Internet 8000 Lite and will report in a week or so
what my experiences are. I rang their customer service about another
question I had and they really do seem to be on the ball.

MM

"Kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
news:armdnUPZgekgszTbnZ2dnUVZ8q2dnZ2d@bt.com...

Ah, not heard of those - thanks for info.

Martin

Eeyore wrote:
There are still quite a few but the number is heading in a general
downward direction.

In the good (bad) old days all extensions had to connected to all 6
colour ways, that has been reduced to 4 & on some of the newer kit
it's down to 3, so give it few more years & it'll either be 2 or none
(extensions, what are those we do everything by radio). Seriousely
with the advent of DECT phones with an upto 3Km range on the market
now, there is really no telephoney need for extensions. Now if you
want to carry something else over the wires, like DSL, that's another
matter...

Kraftee wrote:

Out of interest, if all six wires were needed in the bad old days, what's
changed over time that means they're no longer necessary?

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
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alexd wrote:

Nothing (apart from the 'rules').

Graham

alexd wrote:
Had to connect all 6 wires so that any telephoney equipment requiring
the extra wires would work. I seem to recall some obscure models
which could use an extra pair to allow intercom between handsets &
such like (rather like the DECT do today, but with wires). As I said
obscure & I wouldn't be telling an untruth to say that I have never
personally worked on any such circuits or equipment, but if it was
available it had to catered for on all provisions just in case, if I
can remember the jargon it's was called uniformaty of service & still
applies today, but in a slightly different way.

It's one of the reasons why a field engineer is still supposed to
connect the bell wire although..
A)It may not be required by the equipment being used
B)It can cause problems with any DSL service
C)Isn't required if the end user is using plugin filters.

But it's part of the quality standards agreed with all customers, no
not the end users, but with all the companies supplying telephoney to
the end users & is supposed to be rigorously held to, like the
thousand and one other quality checks which the engineer can be
checked up on.

Kraftee wrote:

wires were always connected to cater for things like 'earth recall' where
'earth' was distributed to connect to one leg as a recall signal and
also to do odd switching on 'party lines'
Also on old bell/dial installations, all the speech paths were in
parallel and all the bells were looped through ALL the phones so that
the 'dial off rest' switch disconnected all the bells to stop 'bell tinkle'
Also extra wires would be needed for 'plan phones' where an intercomm
facility was available between different (cabled) phones.

Mike