After waiting for Plusnet to clear Direct Debit mandates etc, and then
instruct BT (nearly a month from order) they attempted connection on
Tuesday, only to find that BT Openreach have a DACS on the line. They
are now saying that the 'with planning review on the 29th May'. Does
this mean that they expect to remove the DACS on the 29th, or that they
plan to have a little review meeting about it, wait another age, and
finally say: 'sorry we can't do broadband on that line'.

Since Plusnet, Openreach and BT are all one company, couldn't they 'see'
that there was a DACS on the line when the order was accepted?

"TheOldFellow" <theoldfellow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rlsfg5-pdi.ln1@langside.org.uk...
Firstly, BT have a policy to remove DACS as soon as possible after they
receive notification that broadband is required on a line.
This may take a while - some weeks in poorly-provided areas where there is
no "spare pair" immediately available.
They will do it eventually though, and should keep Plusnet advised. I'd keep
bothering Plusnet though, if I were you, so they, in turn, keep bothering
BT!

Secondly, Plusnet is owned by BT Retail, as also are Madasafish, Globalnet,
etc... Openreach operates as a separate entity and, although part of the BT
Group of companies, are obliged by Ofcom to operate behind "Chinese walls"
as far as telecoms suppliers and ISPs are concerned. They can give no
favours to other parts of BT and must treat all their customers on an equal
basis. Therefore, there is no way, officially, that Openreach can "do a
favour" for Plusnet (or BT Broadband) to speed things up, or to give them
any information that they wouldn't give any other ISP.

George

"TheOldFellow" <theoldfellow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rlsfg5-pdi.ln1@langside.org.uk...
In theory, BT keeps records to show where a DACS is installed. With the
handover to BT Openreach such information has probably been lost.

However, the "planning review" will work out whether they can re-allocate a
spare pair, and when they can do it. If re-allcation is possible, it may
take several weeks. It may fail totally because of "lack of available line
plant". If you already have one phone line into the premises then BT will
go no further.

Asking for an additional phone line will then also fail because BT's
"universal service obligation" is limited to providing only one phone line
per household. Your only solution is then to persuade a neighbour who does
not currently have a landline service from BT to apply for one; so this
triggers the installation of more "line plant" - from which it should then
be possible to allocate you a non-DACS pair.

I think BT allow themselves to spend up to £1000 on capital work to provide
ADSL to a given customer.

-- Graham J

TheOldFellow formulated the question :
They're unlikely to ever say 'sorry we can't do broadband on that line'
however, the review for the 29 May could easily then change mid-June,
then end of June etc etc. Hopefully you'll be lucky, as many are.

The worst one I dealt with took 14 months from order to going live.

The good thing, though, is that if you do get a confirmed date & they
actually remove the DACS, then broadband should, theoretically, start
working immediately after.

On Thu, 22 May 2008 19:03:04 +0100, Jono scribbled:

I hate to say it as telling the truth never wins you any friends, but in
many of these cases it comes down to the bloody mindedness of field
engineers. 'I'm not trained on DACS', 'I can't get a pair there', 'I
can't jumper' and all that malarky. Eventually after 10 engineers have
cut and run on it, you may get one turn up and find that it just requires
time. Not all engineers and areas are bad, I think the ratio is 'for one
good hardworking engineer there are 14 lazy crap ones'

Here is the odd thing; When they were on SMT -aka- FRS bonus schemes they
seemed to be able to do anything. (at a cost to the network. . .)

Like Jono says, it is unlikely that they won't be able to remove it - but
you may be the exception. Look on the bright side, at least you have a
high speed digital line at the moment ;-)

The funny thing is

David James laid this down on his screen :
I thought so too

"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.b4777d85f8ac0ac3.88534@blueyonder.invalid. ..
Oh yes they can!

Ask all the people here who live more than about 8km from the exchange - no
chance of ADSL over the phone line!

(OK it isn't quite the same problem, but I have also seen circumstcances
where they will not remove a DACS because of "insufficient line plant")

-- Graham J

In article <rlsfg5-pdi.ln1@langside.org.uk>, theoldfellow@gmail.com
says...
The evidence would suggest not.
--
Regards
Jon

On Thu, 22 May 2008 09:57:47 +0000, TheOldFellow wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. It's not actually my line, it's a friend's
about half a mile away on the same exchange (I use the term loosely -
it's a wooden hut in the woods).

R.

Graham J expressed precisely :
You sig needs some attention.

I never said that they would never say it, just that it is unlikely -
they will make every attempt to do so (within a budget of about
£800-£1000) but not necessarily very quickly at all.

As you point out, distance from the exchange is completely different
from a line sharing device and, without building a new exchange or
uplifting your house and placing it nearer the exchange, doesn't
compare at all.

BT will sometimes think there is a DACs on the line, according to their
records, when in actual fact, there isn't. Check the voltage across the
line - not an engineer myself, however, I'm told a DACsed line has a
completley different voltage across it than a "normal" line.

TheOldFellow expressed precisely :
Sometimes they don't know without actually driving up and looking at
it.

I've seen 'em activate broadband on a line; subsequently the customer
has been unable to connect - new routers/microfilters tried.....to then
have an engineer pop out & discover there's a DACs.

I also had cause for complaint about Openreach's records WRT DACs -

"It'll cost you £4000 for the 2 new ISDN2e as there is insufficient
line plant and we need to run 5cm of new cable (well 50m)"

"OK, I'll convert 2 analogue lines to 2 ISDN2e"

"That'll be £4000 as there is a DACs on the analogue lines and, as you
know there is insufficient line plant"

"OK, I'll convert the analogue lines into 1 ISND2e and worry about the
other afterwards"

Engineer arrives. NO POXY DACS ON THE LINE.

Jon Parker wrote:
The OfCom regulations strictly forbid one bit of BT having priviledged
access to information held by another bit.






--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

On Thu, 22 May 2008 21:25:27 +0100, Jono scribbled:

You think! Wow, do you have the skill for that ;-)

"TheOldFellow" <theoldfellow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rlsfg5-pdi.ln1@langside.org.uk...
They are in common ownership but not the same company. The regulator insists
that there is very clear division between them. In theory the BT records
should show if there is a DACS on the line but the records are not 100%
reliable. The planning review means that they are going to investigate
matters to see if they have spare cable pairs available to allow the DACS to
be removed. Until that happens nobody can know what the outcome will be.


--
Peter Crosland