It seems that Linux fanatics are invading the internet prostletizing
their new found religion. If you follow these debates you will easily
see that they all follow the same flow chart, have the same answers and
use the same techniques to attempt to convert the unknowing user to
Linux.
The purpose of this post is to expose some of the more common tactics
used by the Linux cult to foist their trash upon others.

1. The main tactic is to focus on the user/poster of the message
ratherthan discussing the message.
IOW shoot the messenger instead of the
message.
The cult uses several techniques to accomplish this.

a) You have no posting history, as if that matters when you are posting
a link saying Intel claims desktop Linux is dead.

b) You are posting from Windows/google/OSX/open proxies etc. Yet the
cult ignores their own who do exactly the same thing. Again the object
is to attack the poster and hope the message disappears as the thread
goes off into some weird discussion.

c) Blame windows. This one is a form of thread hijacking. Example is
the current pitiful state of Debian as it's latest (after 3 years!!!!)
update hoses 30 percent of systems it is installed on.
The cult will try and turn the discussion toward Windows while ignoring
the topic of the message which is Debian's screwup.

d)Go into Wolfpack mode, which means the cult will mobilize against you
because they are all sharing messages offline and set up the attack so
it looks like they are just random posts disagreeing with you when in
fact it is an organized attack.

e) Scream about Micorsoft's business tactics. Honestly there must be 40
percent of the messages in Linux groups that consist of Microsoft
bashing instead of Linux edifying.

Maybe that's because there is nothing much to discuss about Linux
because the user base is almost non-existant.

f) Linux is the kernel. This one is used when you blame some
application that came with your distribution, like KDE, for hosing your
system. As if the Linux kernel can be used for anything by itself.

g) Linux is NOT the kernel. This one is used when you post a message
about a security flaw in the kernel and these are very common.

h) Redhat/Mandrake/suse/gentoo/debian/ubuntu etc is not Linux. This one
is called the distribution switcher-roo. If you have a problem with
redhat you will be told to use ubuntu. If you have problem with ubuntu
you will be told to use redhat and on it goes endlessly.
It's a very convienient method of deflecting the attacks on Linux's
usefulness.

i) Accuse the poster of being someone else. This one is a pip. The cult
will just pick a name of a person in the group they don't like and
accuse you of being that person. Especially if you happen to be posting
from the same hemisphere as the person they hate. Again this is
carefully orchestrated offline to be effective and look random and
unbiased, but don't be fooled.

j) ANY negative Linux comment must be attacked. The cult will not stand
for even a solitary negative Linux comment to go unchecked no matter
how true it might be. Watch out for this one because the organized cult
will go for the jugular

I suggest everyone read the COLA Newcomer FAQ so they can learn what
kind of organized cult they are up against.
Here is a copy:

C.O.L.A. Newcomer FAQ and Primer
Edition: 14.079.0712P - 7/4/03
Group: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Copyright (c) 2002-2003 Linux Reality Team

Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
real people, continue reading. If you would like to be told what
you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.

OK, on to the info! ADDED NEW SECTION BELOW!

Here's a list of some frequently asked and answered question here
and elsewhere that you may find useful in your quest to try linux.
Read these carefully before you decide to invest time in Linux, you
may find that you have better things you can do instead.

SECTION ONE - INSTALLATION

--------------------------

1.1 Q: I heard linux was easy to install, is it?
A: That depends on what distro you try. Most of them will have
trouble detecting all your hardware. Most new hardware devices
are not supported. If your lucky you might be able to find
something that someone threw together on the net. But that's
after spending a couple hours searching and probably won't take
advantage of your hardware to it's fullest capability.

1.2 Q: Once I get it installed, then what?
A: Then you get the joy of making sure everything is configured
right. Plan on a minimum of two hours per device to get it to
work. That's if the device is even supported.

1.3 Q: What happens if I'm in the middle of an install and the
installation freezes or just stops?
A: You get to reboot and start all over again. This happens
every so often with Linux. It seems like it's buggy install
routines or something. Ain't Linux grand?

1.4 Q: What's the deal?! I installed Linux and it took up almost 2GB
hard drive space!
A: The Linux distros usually install a LOT of never-used programs
on the default install. You can pick and choose what you want,
but good luck figuring out what programs are needed and what is
useless, obscure tools. Linux usually installs stuff like 10
different editors, 12 different mail clients, and so on.

(more to come...)

SECTION TWO - CONFIGURATION

---------------------------

2.1 Q: What's with all these cryptic files?
A: All of Linux is configured with cryptic text files. Some of
the more user-friendly distros have configuration utilities
that claim to do it for you, but success with these works
sometimes and other times don't, so sometimes you have to
edit them by hand. With Linux's spotty reliability in UI
programming, you might as well get used to it.

2.2 Q: What is killall, HUP, ls, cat, rm, which, etc and why are
these programs telling me to do them? Arggg!!
A: These are command line programs that do things within the
system. It's what makes Linux a powerful OS for those that
are experienced with it. But it's also what makes it a pain
in the arse to use and inefficient as a desktop system. Who
wants to type all the time when they can just click?!

(more to come...)

SECTION THREE - APPLICATIONS

----------------------------

3.1 Q: Where can I get some programs to run on linux?
A: Good question. Because Linux doesn't have a large user base
on the desktop,(I think it's about 0.24%, less than 1%)
companies that make software won't write their programs for
Linux. There's a lot of community created programs out there,
and some are fairly good, but those are few and far between.
Most of the Linux software that tries to mimic it's windows
counterpart is substandard. It's usually slow and buggy and
early in development.

3.2 Q: I tried to install an RPM but I got 'failed dependencies', what
is that?
A: That's Linux's version of DLL hell. Different versions and
distros use different libraries. So unlike windows where
programs will run on many different versions, Linux programs
will fail if they're not made for your specific version.

3.3 Q: What is compiling and configure, make and make install? And
what is a makefile?
A: This is a way to build the programs from the source code
under Linux. When the question above fails, you can always
build it yourself. The advantage is that it works most of
the time. The disadvantage is that it takes forever to build
large programs, you need to know some cryptic commands and
you have to do all this on a command line. Unlike Windows
where you just double click and you are done.

3.4 Q: Can I go to my local store to buy any Linux applications?
A: Not really. You can buy Linux itself at various stores. But
not too many commercial companies make applications for Linux,
there's no profit in it with 0.24% of the desktop market.

(more to come...)

SECTION FOUR - SPEED ISSUES

---------------------------

4.1 Q: Why is Linux so slow?
A: Linux is built on the technology of the old UNIX OS's. Even
the graphical user interface of Linux is a separate program that
is the same type they used back in the older UNIX days. So
working with old technology will give you the old technology
responsiveness. Also, a lot of the GUI's, although nice to look
at, are still not mature. Using them is slow and sluggish
compared to, say, Windows.

(more to come...)

SECTION FIVE - CONSISTENCY

--------------------------

5.1 Q: Why are the windows different looking?
A: Since Linux isn't built by one company, group or have any
governing body, programs and interfaces can vary dramatically.
You can have everything from the nice look of KDE, to something
as ugly as TK and everything in between. You'll usually see some
varying UI stile in Linux.

5.2 Q: Should I buy Suse Linux?
A: No. They make it difficult to get it for free. All the other
distros provide free ISO's to download. Suse is the only one
that doesn't provide them but instead has a FTP install that's
hard to get to work. Why should they make it easy? The more
people that can't get the download to work have to spend $80
or more for the boxed set. And on top of all that although
it might have a few more user friendly tools, it's still the
same base Linux system that's in development and that all the
other distros are using. In other words, they're all on about
the same level of struggling to catch up to Windows, so you're
not going to find any earth-shattering features in one compared
to another.

(more to come...)

SECTION SIX - LINUX COMMUNITY

-----------------------------

6.1 Q: What is RTFM?!
A: This is an acronym for Read The Fuc*ing Manual. This is a common
answer you'll get when asking for help in the Linux community.
It's meant to make you feel inadequate while boating the Linux
persons ...

linux_reality_team wrote:

Just replying to two points, assuming others are either aware of the
high drivel-factor of this post or will post their corrections.

Actually, I got SuSE 9.3 for free. And SuSE 10.0 can be downloaded for
free as well. It's called "OpenSuSE" because SuSE includes a lot of
commercial, non-free programmes with its retail distribution, which they
obviously cannot do with the give-away version.

And BTW, it's not because I've been hacking away at a few of SuSE's
shortcomings lately that I don't think it's a good and capable
distribution. In fact, SuSE is an almost perfect distribution for people
who don't want do tinker with their system and have everything and the
kitchen sink at their fingertips.

RTFM means: "Read the Friendly Manual".

--
Karel "de Jazz" Jansens

"Those of us who fail history, are doomed to repeat it in summer school."
(Buffy Summers)

linux_reality_team wrote:

Looks like windope astroturfers are a gathering!

Would you believe in astroturfers donating all their free time free of
charge to micoshaft attacking free software growing poorer
by the minute while micoshaft executives are drawing
huge circles in the air and laughing all the way to their bank!

No.

So save yourself - there are hundreds of liveCDs out there
that perform better than windopes
http://www.livecdlist.com
No more viruses, no more spyware and adware infected machine.
Just insert liveCD like Knoppix, Mepis, DSL, boot up and away
you go surfing the internet. No need to install or or configure.
It automagically detects everything and just runs.
Things like Quantian have xmaxima that solves equations symbolically.
No student should be without it.

Karel "de Jazz" Jansens wrote:

Don't waste your time on flatfish. It'll never learn.
--
"There is no dark side of the moon, really.
As a matter of fact, it's all dark"
--Roger, the Irish Doorman

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:02:22 UTC, 7
<website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:

But Linux is just a jumped up wannabe UNIX - not the best solution
anyway. Get a real UNIX system (or BSD) if you want to go that way.

Now, stop crossposting to uk.telecom - we have enough crap from '7' at
the best of times.

--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

linux_reality_team wrote:

message is reasonable, why hide behind an open proxy?




http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

A good indicator of a flat fish, is complaints about accusations
claiming that posters are actually flatfish nymshifting.

In article <1130791768.830168.309410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
linux_reality_team <linux_reality_team@yahoo.com> wrote:


and 'their trash'. Are you qualified to judge either one?

about the OS as a whole.

almost no one is having conspiracy discussions _offline_.

Two attacks in the same sentence, neither one supporting your statement.

technical terminology; if you are trying to understand others, you have
to make allowances for mistakes. Holding people in casual discussion to
formally-exacting accuracy is failure on your own part.

It is a serious disadvantage of an OS that the user has to switch from
one to another, let alone reinstall or switch packages.
As far as I am concerned, an OS is only good if the user can forget
about it entirely.

others, not people intending to make a real comment about the thread.
Sometimes the discussion isn't entirely serious, you know.

contributors in a group have any way of contacting another offline.

decision. It isn't always a matter simply of an accurate comment; you
also have an implicit attack, which generates a response.


Okay; I found some pretty fair comments. Far too many negative ones to
accept that this is a Linux user's intro.
If you are the author, what is it you thought others would get from
this? You introduced it like it was going to confirm your 'cult' term,
or verify the attack mentality you were claiming.
Instead, you have me believing you can't be trusted to make any fair or
accurate comment at all, and so destroyed your own efforts.

You can say that again!
This asshole '7' has been crossposting to all the Windows groups in an
attempt to start flame wars over Linux.
He just doesn't get it that most of us are not interested in Linux, and
even if we are, we have no interest in his childish antics.
He really should grow up.






Bob Eager ha escrito:

OK - I was going to let this slide as 'just another silly MS troll', but
I can't, in good conscience do that.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:49:28 -0800,
linux_reality_team wrote:


This is total B.S. I did two Linux installs (Elive and Ubuntu) and an
upgrade on a new computer two nights ago. Total elapsed time to a fully
functional system with triple boot (MS, Elive, Ubuntu) was about two
hours, and there were NO hardware problems at all.

Total B.S. Most devices are recognized and set up during the installation.
Once I got the new computer installed and set up and on the local net, the
Brother HL1440 printer on another computer was all set up and ready to go
- WITH NO INTERVENTION AT ALL.

That very very rarely happens. In my general experience, it happens less
frequently with Linux than with MS.

Linux is all about CHOICE. There are usually several desktops and severl
web browsers. If you don't want them, then all you have to do is go into
the software management (GUI) tool, deselect and uninstall them. A very
simple procedure. Most major distributions allow you to select exactly
what you want at install. Even having all the stuff installed sure beats
the crap out of having to go to OfficeMax and pay several hundred dollars
for MS Office, Adobe Photoshop, etc. - all of which have very functional
replacements on most all Linux systems.

Who knows? You don't have to be concerned with them.

Exactly! I don't type all the time - I just click and use.

Most of it is already there. Need a word processor and a spreadsheet? Try
OpenOffice or AbiWord and Gnumeric. Need to edit some digital photos? Try
GIMP. Need to balance your checkbook? Try Gnucash, Kmymoney. Most other MS
software is free Open Source equivalents too.

You can usually find the package ready for your distribution so you don't
have to worry about it.

Who cares - just click on the package you want in the system installer and
then 'apply' - it's done.

No. And you don't need to. It's probably already installed. If not, it's a
few clicks away.

It isn't. It is generally significantly faster than MS.

Because there are a variety of Desktop Environments, done by different
folks - CHOICE. You can usually select a desktop theme that will make
everything pretty much the way you'd like it. With MS - if you don't like
the desktop - T.S. - that's the only choice.

You can if you want. It's always good to support good software. If you
don't want to, you can download and use it for free. Of course, the free
versions do not come with support.

It's a common response from a lot of Linux 'experts'. Probably they don't
really know, or they'd at least tell you which manual.

George Ellison wrote:
S/h/it wasted s/h/its time on me; I can but repay the favour.

--
Karel "de Jazz" Jansens

"Those of us who fail history, are doomed to repeat it in summer school."
(Buffy Summers)

Bob Eager wrote:

Ugh oh! 'Bob' the nymshifting astroturfer is back.
I thought you only cried for BT$ when we kick its ass?

Telephony is not your thing is it 'Bob'?

Have you heard that LLU companies are rolling out 24Mbit services
yet your precious BT$ most advanced ADSL is 1/3 rd speed?
Sounds to me like they are 1/3rd the engineers they claim to be.
Now start crying for BT$ you bar steward.
I order you to cry for BT$.

Doh! And What's all this 'Bob' about Unix?
Hmmmm...
Trust me operating system are not your thing either 'Bob'.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:38:00 UTC, 7
<website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:

Little do you know. Nearly 30 years of UNIX experience do you? And
there's more...but you wouldn't have the initiative to find out. You
really have no idea just how wrong you are!

(yes, you fell into the trap....)

--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:37:10 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

'7' doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer that's for sure.
It's funny how they worship him over in comp.os.linux.advocacy but in the
other groups he SPAMS they have him all figured out.

Oh well, COLA people think Linux=unix and they couldn't be more incorrect.
Linux is a toy.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:54:32 UTC, John Shelton
<shelton51340zz@gmail.com> wrote:

Exactly!

--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

What's Linux?

The racist, liar and software thief John Shelton (flatfish) nymshifted:

< snip flatfish droppings >

You lately posted as

Aftab Singh, allison_hunt1969, Anna Banger, anonymous, Archie Watermann,
Baba Booey, Babu Singh, bill.gates.loves.me, bison, Bjarne Jensen,
BklynBoy, bonobo magilla, Boyce Mabri, Buster, Charles LeGrand, Charlie,
Choppers McGee, Christine Abernathy, Claire Lynn, Clippy, Collie Entragion,
Connie Hines, Corrie, Corrie Titlaand, dbx_boy, Deadpenguin,
dismoqualifetch, Elliot Zimmermann, Emmanuel Arias, Fawn Lebowitz,
flatfish+++, foamy, Fred Simmons, gabriele howorth, Gary Stewart, George
Littlefield, Gilbert Hochaim, gilligan, Greg Finnigan, Greg Laplante, Hans
Kimm, Heather, Heather69, Heddy Seafield, hepcat, Ishmeal Hafizi, itchy
balls, Ivan Mctavish, IvanaB, Jeff Szarka, Jorge Jorgensen, Jose Lopez,
juke_joint, kaptain kaput, Karel Olish, Karla Snodgress, kathy_krantz,
Kendra, Kent Dorfman, Laura Shillingford, Le Farter, Les Turner, Lilly,
Lindy, Lisa Shavas, Lisa Cottmann, Long, long_tong_ling, Lukumi Babalu Aye,
Luna Lane, Major Mynor, McSwain, Mogumbo, Moses,
narrows_whitefish@yahoo.com, nate_mcspook, okto_pussy, Paddy McCrockett,
Patricia, Peter Gluckman, Phillip Cornwall, phoung, phoung quoak,
pickle_pete, Poopy Pants McGee, Quimby, Quizno Backer, Rich, Richie
O'Toole, Robert Strunk, rothstein_ivan, Sally Vadi, Sammy, Sammy Whalen,
Saul Goldblatt, Schlomo Smykowski, Sharon Cackle, Sharon Hubbasland, Sean,
Sean Fitzhenry, Sean Macpherson, Sewer Rat, sewer_clown, Simon,
slacker.mcspritze, Spammy_Davis, spanny_davis, Stephan Simonsen, Stephanie
Mannerz, Stephen, Stephen Olsen, Stephen Townshend, SuckyB, SunnyB, Susan
Lapinski, Susan Wong, Suzie Wong, Swampee, The Beaver, Thorsten, Toby
Rastus Roosovelt III, Tomas Bicsak, Tori, Tori Wassermann, Tracee, Traci,
trailerpark, Trina Swallows, Vince Fontain, Vladimir Yepifano, Walter
Bubniak, Wang Mycock, Whizzer, Wilbur J, Willy Wong, Winnie Septos,Wobbles
and zyklon_C.
Plus many, many, many more.
--
Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
It could be worse, but it'll take time.

Bob Eager schreef:

It is POSIX compliant, which is perfectly satisfactory. As for being
"wannabe", it runs on more hw-platforms than any UNIX.

linux_reality_team (flatfish) wrote:

*plonk*

"Trent SC" <invalid@bogoff.invalid> wrote in message
news:4366b40d$0$6533$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
OK. You know what a "Car" is? Good, now you also know that some folks don't
like driving say a nice new Merc or BMW, they much prefer going down the
scrapyard and getting a load of parts to assemble their own "Kit Car". These
people have far more fun toying around getting everything working than they
would in actually *driving* the darn thing. So, Linux is like the Kit Car of
the Operating System world.

Easy?

Rob

RobDee wrote:

Easy to see that you're an idiot.