Recently I took out a sub. to Demon's Home ADSL serviced. I quoted my
VISA debit card as a one off payment. I DID NOT set up a direct debit -
I don't do direct debits because I trust neither any company nor the
banks to get this right or to sort things out if something go wrong.

However when I checked my bank statement the demon sub. was flagged as
a "recurring VISA transaction."

I had a suspicion what this was about - and my bank confirmed this.
They explained:

=========

Some visa companies use what is called a 'Continuous Authority
Merchant' number for payments. This means that they are able to debit
your account different times. Therefore, even if you cancel the card,
the payment can still be taken from your account using the old number.

If you have not authorised any companies to debit your account
continuously please contact the company to cancel the regular payment.
However if they continue to debit your account after you have cancelled
your authorisation then you need to contact our Visa Chargebacks
department on the address below:

=========

So apparently NOTHING can stop Demon (and presumably other companies)
from charging what it likes even if I change my accounts and especially
if I decide not to subscribe to its services anymore. It also means
that it can raise its charges and then take the payments for them from
my account WITHOUT AUTHORISATION. I mean would you trust any ISP with a
blank cheque to your bank account(s)?

CJB.

So how were you going to pay for the next month's charges?

Most ISPs will either accept a direct debit or a registered credit/debit
card in order to allow for an automated payment (doing it manually is
time-consuming & relatively expensive to administer for them).

That was a mistake. The DD is much safer than any other form of payment.
Wrong!. What you have to do is serve written notice on the company that the
authority is revoked. Any payment taken after that is fraudulent.

That is why the DD is much safewr.

Peter Crosland

On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:30:13 UTC, "CJB" <chrisjbrady@gmail.com> wrote:

Wonder what happens if you pay with an Entropay card, then delete the
card?
--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

"Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-pKCknJnOWcQB@rikki.tavi.co.uk...

If you ask when setting up the account Demon will send monthly or annual
invoices which you can settle with a cheque. They don't send the first
invoice until about a couple of weeks after the service is up and running.
You can therefore be in complete control of payments.

--
Graham

On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 23:49:12 UTC, "Graham" <graham@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

Mine was the more general point about ahwt to do if you need to give a
CC number. I have never gone near Demon and don't expect to!

--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

I pay annually. And I requested them to send me an invoice a couple of
months before its due to be renewed. They haven't done this. They've
set up a recurring charge. But trying to get them to change this
impossible. CJB.

I intended to pay annually upon receipt of an invoice. CJB.
..
TrentSC wrote:

You didn't say that in your original post. However, assuming this is the
case, call Demon and advise them of the situation, and call your credit card
company. It's not rocket science.

"CJB" <chrisjbrady@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162426510.662087.318650@f16g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

On 1 Nov 2006, "CJB" <chrisjbrady@gmail.com> wrote:

Then switch ISP. But do not expect other ISPs to do *exactly* what you
are after unless you get it in writing from them first (and even then,
I doubt many have things set up to send you an invoice that far in
advance of renewal).

Dave {Reply Address In.sig} wrote:


Agree 100% with these comments. I have experienced similar problems with
various business (apparently respected names like More Than Insurance -
aka Royal Sun Alliance) claiming I have authorised continuing
authorities when I have done nothing of the sort.

At least with Direct Debit you can cancel it and insist that the bank
immediately refunds your account.

Alan

CJB <chrisjbrady@gmail.com> wrote:
same as a Continuous Authority on a credit (type) card.

You can always cancel a Direct Debit and the business taking the money
will no longer be able to take money from you.

As you found out cancelling a Continuous Authority is much more
difficult.

Avoid Continuous Authorities, Direct Debits are much safer.

--
Chris Green

brightside@replyto_addy_is_not.invalid wrote in
news:hdijk2tmj8bgkpjr3mv8b5ln862vrvbkot@4ax.com:


=====

They did that themselves.

It is NOT impossible. All you have to do is send them written notice
revoking their authorisation with a copy to your bank for good measure. Any
payment taken after they receive the notice is de facto fraud.

Peter Crosland

Stone Free <spam_KillKillKillstone_freeNoSpamPleaseWereBritis h@hotmail.com> wrote:
However the OP seems a little confused too from the above paragraph.
You *cannot* set up a Direct Debit from a card, whatever sort it is so
saying "I DID NOT set up a direct debit" indicates that the OP was
somewhat confused about what was going on.

It's also not clear whether "I quoted my VISA debit card..." means he
entered it into an on line form or if he was actually speaking to
someone on the phone.

It does seem possible that Demon didn't make it clear that they were
setting up a Continuous Authority but this does tend to be the default
for such ISP payments.

--
Chris Green

In message <1162413013.369679.124400@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups. com>, CJB
<chrisjbrady@gmail.com> writes
require regular payments. They can be a bit awkward to stop if the
company goes rogue, especially if you have a couple set up but they are
a very common way of paying by credit/debit card and have been around
for a *long* time, certainly over ten years. Just because you've not
heard of them doesn't make them suspect however it does sound as though
Demon made a mistake, ring them to explain and they should sort it for
you.
--
Clint Sharp

CJB wrote:


Its funny, but demon$ had committed similar 'fraud' against
my account a long time ago.
How and what they did this is very interesting for the VAT man
to hear...
My subscription to their service was ending, and I did not
authorize renewal, particularly as I had gone away to distant
lands for some years. I came back to see demands for unpaid bills.
Then a suspension notice. Then threats. Then a settlement note that
delared they had written off 'my' debt except the VAT.
It didn't click for a minute what 'except for the VAT' meant.
Though they had written off the debt, they had claimed the VAT
back from the VAT man. That is total, utter and complete
VAT fraud as no service had been authorized or purchased!!!!!!!!!
No money had changed hands, but the fscking wankers had bilked the
VAT man out of money.

"7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
news:Ozs2h.46014$r61.30115@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
Er, no ...

Demon sends you an invoice which includes VAT. Regardless of whether you
pay, they have to pay VAT on that invoice at the end of the current VAT
accounting period.

Later, they decide you are a bad debt, and write you off. The VAT man
allows them to reclaim the VAT they paid in respect of your invoice. VAT
man is happy.

The fact that they made the mistake in issuing the invoice in the first
place is irrelevant.

The VAT position would have been exactly the same had they sent you a credit
note - the VAT amount would have been cancelled out.


-- Graham

Using a Direct Debit Card to pay a bill via the switch system ALWAYS
gives full access to your account by the merchant. Its part of the
small print YOU signed up to when YOU took the card. Most merchants do
not take advantage of the fact but they can take repeat payments from
the card because you agreed to it when you got your card.

With a credit card they have to inform you that they are setting up a
recurring transaction AND have in place a system to stop the payments
at your request.The first port of call with these transactions is to
write to the merchant, recorded delivery is always a good idea. then
IF they fail to cancel it the card company should (Some make it very
hard but the Financial Credit Act rules state they must). But then
with a CC the card company takes equal responsability for the
transaction where as with switch its between you and the merchant.


In order of safety:-
Direct Debit Leaves you in full control

Credit Cards Pain to stop recurring transactions
but the Card company and merchant have
joint liability (once the total billed
amount reaches over £100.00). IE you
paid for the service in instalments.

cheque

and a long long way lower

Switch / debit cards Use of is giving the merchant
FULL access to take monies
from your account.

Having used multiple IP's at least demon allow merging of bills,
yearly bills, proform invoices and final invoices and payment by
cheque.

It should be noted that as far processing costs incurred by the
merchant:-
Switch Transactions 20-50p fixed depending on there back
Credit Cards 20-50p PLUS a percentage of the amount
Cheque Tens of pounds, CBI quote approx £75
is a normal figure.

IE they much prefere Debit Cards.....

Wombat

"CJB" <chrisjbrady@gmail.com> wrote:

7 are there ANY ISP you havnt had a run in?

Wombat

7 <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote: