Hello,

We would like a broadband service on one of our lines at work, but
having some problems.

We have one line which comes from an exchange around 6km away at the
back of the site, and passes under a railway line to the main building
where the master socket is, so this is out for Broadband.
ADSL was provisioned on this line about 3 years ago and failed due to
its excessive length (this was before I was involved with the company)

We have another line which would supposedly support DSL to 1mbps, From a
nearer exchange which comes into the front of the site, then goes under
the railway and master socket is in a workshop. This however supposedly
shares the same cable under the railway as line above. These two lines
are technically in the wrong place. i.e the master sockets should be
other way around! (we're on the boundary of two area codes)

Finally line 3 is provided from nearer exchange as per above, and the
master socket is in the main building therefore not sharing cables or
going under railway lines, but it has a BT sharing device on it!!

Ideally this would be the line for Broadband, as it terminates in the
main building where we need it, we've been told to put in an order on
line 3 and hopefully BT will remove the sharing device. And if it comes
to it, they are welcome to put the sharing device onto line 2 as this
will never need DSL.

We've been told that BT will probably do the work, however would we have
more luck if we went with a BT ISP, which has been hinted it.
However as I see it BT Retail are separate from whoever deals with the
sharing device so it shouldn't make a difference.

Any thoughts/suggestions on this would be welcome!

On 01/11/2006, Great Eastern thought we'd be interested in the
following:

It should make no difference which ISP you go with, and if you
subsequently find it does should you choose the BT ISP route, inform
OFCOM.

As for who would carry out the work, if it is a BT line, then I think
you'll find it will be BT, regardless.

--

"Great Eastern" <ger@ger.ger> wrote in message
news:4548ebf0$0$8712$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
I thought this when a neighbour wanted his DACS removed and ADSL provided.
BT took about 3 months to achieve it - and every time we called them they
said "talk to your ISP", not recognising that they were the ISP.

So go for a trustworthy ISP first ... I suggest Zen

--
Graham

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 18:48:19 +0000, Great Eastern <ger@ger.ger> wrote:


If it's a BT line then call 150 and ask for your line to be "deshared"
- they will tell you how much this will cost, it takes around 10 days
for an overhead dacs to be removed (depending on lineplant
availability) or longer if its an underground dacs. In any case, it's
your responsibility to instigate the removal of the dacs.

jasper

Great Eastern wrote:

Who told you that? Who even hinted at that?

Regards

William MacLeod

On Nov 1, 9:19 pm, jim <jmacduff9...@notthis.hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

no it isn't. DACS removal is an automatic part of ADSL provisioning
unless the cost breaks the bank. You order ADSL, the DACS is removed,
ADSL is provisioned. Simple. Don't make it complicated with inaccurate
information.

Phil

"jim" <jmacduff9743@notthis.hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3m3ik2hhvkppdnrartminq25g1bq2ji7d1@4ax.com...
WRONG!

willie@macleod-group.com wrote:
Someone who works for BT

"Great Eastern" <ger@ger.ger> wrote in message
news:4548ebf0$0$8712$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
When you place your order for aDSL with chosen ISP, they will place an order
with their supplier to provide either the full aDSL service (or for some
unbundled sites just a link in the local loop to their own equipment in the
exchange).

As you correctly state, aDSL cannot work on lines with Pair Gain Devices
(also know as DACs).

The ISPs supplier should arrange for the DACs to be removed as part of the
aDSL provision process. This process can be very quick - a few days if
spare pairs exist, or if the DACs can be swapped over to another line, or
can be very protracted - I have know one take 6 months as it entailed new
ducting and cabling for several miles to replace the existing cable that had
no spares.

If there are any problems with the ISPs supplier refusing to remove the
DACs, the ISP should take this up directly with them. It is not your (as
the ISPs customers) problem as such, although I agree the presence of the
DACs may delay provision of the aDSL. Depending on the ISP, if their
supplier declined to remove the DACs due to excessive costs, then you may or
may not be advised. Some may go straight back to the supplier to resolve
leaving you unaware of the problem , others may just say "sorry, no can do
as you have DACs" as they no longer see it as cost effective in the time
taken in dialogue with their supplier to get the problem resolved.

One situation that may occur is for very long lines, ie a long way from the
exchange. It may be that the losses calculated for the line after removal
of the DACs are so high that aDSL will still not be able to be supported.
In this case the order may still be rejected as there is no reason to remove
the DACs as the aDSL cannot be provided. This situation is so rare that I
have heard it talked about but have yet to come across a case. Probably get
one today now :0(

The suggestion about using BT as an ISP would be easier is misleading, and
non-compliant and just plain WRONG!. BT Broadband, and all variants
supplied by BT as retail products, are treated exactly the same was as all
other ISPs who use BT Wholesale to provide their aDSL infrastructure, or
Openreach to provide the local loop (the copper pair) to the exchange. It
should make no difference to the removal of the DACs who the ISP is.

If someone in BT has suggested that using BT will give you an advantage,
they are not complying to the code of conduct for BT staff, and if it is
found out they could be subject to disciplinary action.

One final word, removal of the DACs does not always guarantee that aDSL can
be supplied. It may be the line still fails losses at the last, especially
if the line is on the limit when the initial calculations are completed.

J

"SJP" <someone@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
newseCdnfRleNDVDNTYnZ2dnUVZ8q6dnZ2d@bt.com...
Correct answer, but a bit more information as to the correct process would
have been helpful.

J

Tx2 wrote:
I didn't think it would make a difference, but this is what was said
unofficially from BT.

Will put an order in on the DACS line and go from there.

Apparently BT use Railway Lines as a boundary for area codes, but for
some reason, our only good line is one which comes in on the right side,
then disappears under the railway and reappears in a workshop on t'other
side where Master Socket is!

"Great Eastern" <ger@ger.ger> wrote in message
news:4549b8ab$0$8743$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
DO you have a name & contact number for this person?

Was the comment made by the individual as part of their duties (eg, are they
an account manager, Service Leader, etc), or was it over a pint in the pub
type situation as they work for BT and are promoting BT service?

Either way, they are not compliant, although the former is the more serious,
that latter should also be addressed.

If you wish, you can email me the details (extract nospam from email - this
address is normally ignored, except to be emptied once a month, but if I
know something is coming in I'll look for it) and I will report the case to
the appropriate regulatory group and/or their manager (using the inform from
this NG as evidence).

J

--
All comments, views and opinions expressed are entirely my own.
No inference should be made or drawn that they represent the
Policy of any organisation and should not be taken as such.

"Great Eastern" <ger@ger.ger> wrote in message
news:4549b9da$0$8722$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
Sometimes, but not always. A railway line, ie the line in Cambridge, can
make an easy boundary to follow, but it is not always the case.

J

Maneate wrote:

Our 2 lines on Main Building side are on a pole opposite, 1 is the DACS
line and 1 is the non DACS.

We've been told then could simply rewire from here, sending DACs line
under the railway and the good pair into the building, then updating at
exchange to swap numbers over. Or would BT go about it a different (more
expensive!) way??

Maneate wrote:
In our case the railway splits 2 villages, one side is on 1 exchange
with a Colchester Number and the other side with a Sudbury Number

"Great Eastern" <ger@ger.ger> wrote in message
news:4549bf28$0$8729$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
It would depend on what the local planners decide.

It might just be a case of swapping pairs around (renumbers would not be
necessary), or they could decide that an uplift to the network locally was
in order, thereby giving some future flexibility for anyone else in the area
who was in a similar situation, or for if/when new lines were required.

What may seen like a cheap option may not be so in the longer term.

But in essence, this is not your problem, its up to the ISP and their
supplier to resolve.

J

--
All comments, views and opinions expressed are entirely my own.
No inference should be made or drawn that they represent the
Policy of any organisation and should not be taken as such.

"Great Eastern" <ger@ger.ger> wrote in message
news:4549c0a8$0$8729$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
I correct myself, in Cambridge it is different local exchanges - City and
Cherry Hinton - but the same STD code. Thats what comes on not reading what
you have written :0(

J

--
All comments, views and opinions expressed are entirely my own.
No inference should be made or drawn that they represent the
Policy of any organisation and should not be taken as such.

"Maneate" <Maneate@nospam.btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:IZKdnZmYo7GdJNTYnZ2dnUVZ8tOdnZ2d@bt.com...
Absolutely.
In the "bad old days" it took an arm and a leg and a great deal of time for
BT to remove a DACS - they would only do it when/if they wanted to. I know,
I waited months, and complained all the way up the BT tree, eventually
getting it removed.
It *should* be a lot simpler, now that BT Wholesale and Openreach have been
set up. These organisations, although part of BT, operate within "Chinese
walls" and are prevented by regulations from favouring BT over any other
supplier (phone or Internet).
As Maneate says, your ISP should chase BT to get DACS removed but many ISPs
don't want the bother.
A neighbour of mine is on dial-up and wants to go on Broadband. On enquiring
to her ISP (Madasafish), she was told that they couldn't provide broadband
because of a line-sharing device (this was DACS).
I told her to keep pressing her ISP on this. She made a nuisance of herself
and they eventually caved in and have now negotiated with BT to remove the
DACS so that they can provide her with Broadband. In her case, they quoted
about two months for the necessary line work (she's still waiting but at
least the order is in hand).
The answer is - keep plugging with your ISP - don't contact BT directly.

George

On 2 Nov 2006, "George Weston" wrote:

How long ago are you thinking of?

It was fairly simple a few years ago, when a friend had his second line (to
a back bedroom used as his 'den') ADSL-enabled. The ISP (Eclipse) told him
his line was enabled on the Monday, but he was away, and we eventually got
to test it on the Friday. As soon as they knew that it was not getting
any sync with the exchange, it was reported to BT, and about 10 days later
(OK, it would have been nice to have been a bit faster, but still pretty
good, IMO) it was all sorted out. Eclipse adjusted his billing date so
he was not charged for the period without service. He was happy. It
must have been in the summer of 2003 or 2002, as he later signed up
with PlusNet (on his 'main' phone line) and cancelled the second
line and service from Eclipse. No problems with them, and he's had
few problems with PlusNet, to be fair (he uses a POP mailbox and web
hosting, independent of PN).

NoNeedToKnow wrote:
Haven't we all.....If only I could find an ISP (for home use which is
ADSL enabled with PN) that provided a connection only with a fairly
useful limit.