Because no download limits or fair usage levels are applicable, some high
bandwidth activities (such as p2p) will be speed restricted during busy
times. This is great news for customers who simply surf and email, as these
activities are to be given the highest priority on Broadband Plus.

Customers will pay for the speed setting they choose, which could be
anything up to 8Mb as those speeds become available later in the year. 1Mb
for under £20 per month, with no fair usage limit, will be a real bargain
for average family users.

Speed | Price
-----------------------------
512Kb - £14.99 (Inc Vat)
1Mb - £19.99 (Inc Vat)
2Mb - £24.99 (Inc Vat)
Up to 8Mb - TBC

In article <4238ae28$0$576$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>,
news@nospamatmyteaparty.f9.co.invalid says...

....Plusnet will deny this is an "unlimited" ADSL package.

"Rolyat" <newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca2bf06b67b604f9896ba@news.plus.net...
Plusnet are the very spawn of Satan.

"Nat Stott" <news@nospamatmyteaparty.f9.co.invalid> wrote in message
news:4238ae28$0$576$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
PlusNet's / Force9's charging structure intrigues me: if you opt for a 1GB
capped tariff ("Lite") you pay the same price for 512K, 1M and 2M; but if
you opt for the "unlimited" tariff you pay extra for a faster connection.
I'd expect either the same price (higher than for 1GB) for all three speeds
of "unlimited" or else I'd expect the prices of Lite to vary with speed.

How are ISPs charged by BT for their customers' connections? These days, do
they have to pay according to speed, bandwidth or a combination of the two?

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:09:04 -0000, Martin Underwood <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

Hi,

Under CBC we pay BT the same cost for the port of the exchange regardless
of what speed the customer chooses. The wholesale cost is £8.40 whether
it's 512kbps, 1Mbps or 2Mbps (on IPStream Home).

The big cost comes from the central pipes (about £1.5 million per year for
a 622Mbps pipe), meaning that the more bandwidth your customers use the
more pipes you need and hence the higher the costs per customer.

This means for us on the Lite account where you pay per GB it doesn't
really matter what speed you are on, because the cost to us is exactly the
same. The signup to the Lite product will shortly be changed so that all
customers get 2Mbps by default and only get lower than that if their line
can't support it. Those Lite customers currently on 512 and 1Mbps will be
regraded for free to 2Mbps per possible from April, completing for all by
the end of June.

Similarly the signup to Premier will change again so that you sign up for
2Mbps by default and again, only get 512 and 1Mbps if your line can't
support it. Instead you'll get the choice of the different fair usage
thresholds. As with Lite those customers where possible will be regraded
to 2Mbps from April.

Broadband Plus sits in the middle of these, we provision the line as fast
as possible, but limit the speed depending on which package you choose. A
change in speed on Broadband Plus can then be done without a BT regrade.
The key thing to remember is that Broadband Plus won't be marketed as
"unlimited", instead the product is designed with the vast majority of
today's Internet users in mind and isn't product that will be suitable for
the customers that want to download large amounts.


With Regards,

Dave,
--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Customer Support for Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----

"PlusNet Support Team" <dtomlinson@plus.net> wrote in message
newspsnsatintyf6049@callcentre06.plus.net...
Thanks for that excellent explanation.

One other question: if I submit a request today to upgrade my Force9 account
from dial-up to broadband and the exchange is due to be enabled in the
middle of April (the date that BT quote for the exchange), will my request
sit in the queue until mid-April and then get actioned on the appropriate
date, or will I need to re-submit the upgrade request nearer the time? I
presume my access to the freephone 0808 number will only be withdrawn when
the line has actually been enabled for broadband.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:56:09 -0000, Martin Underwood <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

If you put the request in now it just sits there until the exchange ready
date. We'll place the order ourselves on this date.

You'd keep the 0808 access until the broadband is activated.

If you're interested in Broadband Plus then I would suggest waiting until
nearer the exchange ready date because it isn't available to signup up to
yet.


With Regards,

Dave,
--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Customer Support for Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----

So which product would be better for customers who download large amounts?

BB Plus- No dl limit:
512Kb - £14.99 (Inc Vat)
1Mb - £19.99 (Inc Vat)
2Mb - £24.99 (Inc Vat)
Up to 8Mb - TBC

or broadband premier, with limits:

£21.99 30GB
£29.99 50GB
£39.99 75GB
£49.99 100GB
£59.99 125GB

Given that most of us will only be able to get 2Mb/s, we can pay 29.99 for
50GB or 24.99 for unlimited GB.

As I only download a few Gig a month myself, I'm not really bothered, but
the pricing structure is strange.

As I currently pay 21.99/month for 512K, shouldn't I have the choice to stay
on same speed, for 14.99, without paying an upgrade fee?

In article <opsnsatintyf6049@callcentre06.plus.net>, dtomlinson@plus.net
says...


Marketed as such or not, it is undoubtedly unlimited.
"No download limits" means as much as you want.

In article <cqsj31pf949ss6g5q6ggjiee6o082oimlm@4ax.com>,
leon@no.address.com says...
What about it? It doesn't apply to the new 'unlimited' accounts.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:29:10 -0000, Nat Stott
<news@nospamatmyteaparty.f9.co.invalid> wrote:

The Broadband Plus accounts aren't designed for customers who want to
download large amounts. The Broadband Premier products are designed with
this in mind. Broadband Plus will be a product that utilises traffic
shaping so that things like Peer-2-Peer and binary news are slowed down
and things like web browsing and email are given priority.

From April we will start regrading all our customers to faster speeds
where we can, so if you do nothing thenm so long as your line supports it,
you'll get 2Mbps Premier for £21.99 and maybe faster later in the year.
There'll also be a tool on the portal to allow you to change the speed
should you wish.


With Regards,

Dave,
--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Customer Support for Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:50:27 -0000, Rolyat
<newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.com> wrote:


However you care to look at Broadband Plus it will not be marketed as
being "unlimited", the traffic shaping and network management will be key.
It will also be sold as a contended service and will still be subject to
our terms and conditions. We want to make it clear that this account is
not suitable for customers who want to download large amounts and set the
expectations correctly regarding this. That if you are approaching
Broadband Plus with the idea that you can max out your connection 24/7
then you will soon find out you've made the wrong choice of account type.


With Regards,

Dave,
--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Customer Support for Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----

"PlusNet Support Team" <dtomlinson@plus.net> wrote in message
newspsnudjji6yf6049@callcentre06.plus.net...
I'm totally baffled. I currently have 1Mbps Premier and pay £29.99. I know
my connection is about to be upgraded to 2Mbps in April but what about the
monthly fee?

You have stated above that your 2Mbps Premier service is now going to cost
£21.99. When does this fee come in to play and is it across the board?

Steven.

In article <opsnudryzzyf6049@callcentre06.plus.net>, dtomlinson@plus.net
says...

[...]

No it won't; for the majority of users "no download limits" will be the
key, and the point on which many will sign up.

It is unlimited however /you/ care to look at it, regardless of whether
or not any unwritten limit (in your ambiguous terms and conditions) is
reached or not.

You are marketing it as "no download limits" - please enlighten me as to
where "unlimited" and such differ?

Like I said before, you know you are in a unchallengable position with
regard your T&C's, as your historical goal post moving has demonstrated
on more than one occasion.

How you can say "no download limits" and then go so far as to suspend
someone's account (as per your T&C's) for maybe downloading so much it
causes "detriment" to the service is going to be a point I hope comes to
the fore.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:37:32 -0000, Rolyat
<newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.com> wrote:


The design of the product will mean that downloading huge amounts of data
will just not be possible. This is what the traffic shaping will do.
However is no upper limit or maximum amount you can download.

The big confusion with the word "unlimited" is how it is used and what it
means. To some unlimited would mean the ability max out your connection
24/7 and download 100's of GB's per month and that is not what Broadband
Plus is about at all.

Instead we don't set in stone a maximum amount you can do, we don't set a
download limit, we shape your traffic in such away that makes the service
unsuitable for downloading large amounts of data.




With Regards,

Dave,
--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Customer Support for Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:48:51 -0000, Steven Campbell
<newsgroup@pTHREEasa.co.uk> wrote:


From April the regrades will happen, I don't know now whether your regrade
would be done in April or later but as far as our product set is concerned
we'll it has been done when we implement fair usage.

So with fair usage you stay on the £29.99 product, you might have been
upgraded to 2Mbps at that time, or it might happen later.

What you can then do is move up or down the different fair usage
thresholds. Moving up to £39.99 is free, moving down to £21.99 would have
a one-off fee of £14.99.

You can look it as Premier becomes a service not priced on speed as it is
now, but by upgrading everyone where we can to 2Mbps and later faster
speeds you can instead choose a price package based on how much you will
use the service.





With Regards,

Dave,
--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Customer Support for Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----

In article <opsnupepbqyf6049@callcentre06.plus.net>, dtomlinson@plus.net
says...

Will you be curbing internet radio et al? What about the use of sites
such as apple.com/trailers? Will these be slowed down?

What about if I receive several very large email per hour, every hour,
of every day?

You can't market something as "no limits but restricted in respect of
P2P" and then later say, "ooh, actually, we also meant internet radio,
and video, and anything else we previously hadn't thought of..." when
you notice folk are actually achieving the limits you previously
restricted on your Premier accounts, and you hit them with those
ambiguous T&C's again.

We'll wait and see.

It is unlimited then.

No confusion here. I know and appreciate what BP is all about. Not
everyone will behave as you would hope though Mr Plusnet. But how can
you curb them, when you have very clearly indicated "no limits"?

Via which method? There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Or is BP a reaction to the fact that not all ISP's followed suit when
Plusnet imposed download restrictions, you noticed mass migration, and
you are now clawing your way back with a new set of unlimited type
accounts?

I just don't think Plusnet have thought this one out at all.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:42:17 -0000, Rolyat
<newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.com> wrote:


As I've said before we reserve the right with Broadband Plus to manage the
traffic as we see fit. I can't give you a definitive list of everything
that will or won't be prioritised within the traffic shape, it just isn't
possible at this stage.

The key things we've said are web browsing and email is prioritised and
P2P and binary news de-prioritised. Anything else at this stage is just
going to be speculation.

Yes.



No.


As I said above we reserve the right to manage the traffic as we want.



Indeed there is. The Ellacoya e30's will be doing this job.



I haven't noticed mass migrations and this isn't an unlimited account in
the sense that you can download huge amounts of data.


Well we'll just have to disagree on that one.



With Regards,

Dave,
--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Customer Support for Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----

In article <opsnus1gygyf6049@callcentre06.plus.net>, dtomlinson@plus.net
says...


Not possible?

You've announced a 'major' new product, and you have no clue how it will
work?? Oh dear...

And, you will curb traffic as you see fit, which could include
absolutely anything other than P2P? I'm not asking for a specific list,
but, in essence, you could take action against someone who insisted on,
say, using internet radio 24 x 7 if they started hitting download rates
you considered excessive... ?

And how would your T&C's cover this?

How about 'de-speculating' it then fella?

If I'm to enter into an unlimited contract, I want to know *EXACTLY*
what i'm buying.

"Yes mate, we will sell you a car, but it could have two wheels, it
might have 3, there's every chance it could have 4 ... buy it and see"

Perhaps i'll not buy your model after all....

Sorry, but "we" won't .... not initially. Someone else can be your
Plusnet Guinea Pig.

You want folk to sign up to an unlimited account, for which you have no
clue how traffic shaping will pan out, whereafter you will hit them with
T&C's if they do happen to start downloading more than you are
comfortable with, via methods yet to be defined?

Classic.

Yes, it is. No limits you said.

But without limit. Unlimited.

On what basis? Restricting 'normal' P2P, fine ... but, for example, what
if I get several 99.9mb email a day, every day? What if I use internet
radio, what if I download lots of 'distros' one month, what if, what if?

You're not about to admit anything to the contrary, of course.

So it *is* an unlimited account in the sense there are no restrictions?

I expected no less.

In article <opsnus1gygyf6049@callcentre06.plus.net>, dtomlinson@plus.net
(PlusNet Support Team) wrote:

So traffic on port 80, 25 and 110 are guaranteed. Thank you for showing me
how to keep my P2P running well :-)

--
Paul Cummins, Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981