Between mains power cuts (every couple of weeks around here, lately) I have
a reliable ADSLMax connection from Zen running at 160 - 224 kbps downstream
and 448 kbps upstream, on a line about 11 km long. Noise margin d/s cycles
slowly between 6 & 12 db (better at night), and is always 12 db u/s. The
problem is that it takes my Netgear DG834 router anything up to 12 hours to
re-sync after a power-off (voluntary or involuntary). I have tried a
Draytek 2800 with various firmwares, but it has never synced at all in
periods up to 36 hours.

Is it normal to take that long to re-sync with a 6 - 12 db noise margin, and
if not is there anything I can do to speed up the synchronisation process
from power-on?

Trev

"Trev" <spam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:455b4b4a$0$18048$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
You could get a UPS and stop the router from being powered off.
How long are the power cuts?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Trev <spam@nowhere.com> wrote:

After a reset, my router invariably re-synchs with the line in 30 seconds or
less. [I haven't actually timed it because it hasn't been an issue - but
that is my best estimate from watching it]. Having got the synch light on,
it can then take anything from a few seconds to forever to log on to my
PlusNet ADSL account.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On 15 Nov 2006, "Trev" <spam@nowhere.com> wrote:

That does seem an inordinately long time... As it happens, some friends in
a rural location (on the edge of a village) have had significant problems
with their connection (also, as it happens, with Zen on DSL Max). They
are not half as far as you from their exchange (Frodsham) and have in
fact been getting sync speeds of 3000 kbps on the downstream side, but
relatively poor speed tests, and had also been getting some lengthy
periods of downtime, like yours.

Has Zen suggested anything? In the case of my friends, I was told that a
week or so ago the SNR level was increased (from the default 6 db level)
so the exchange will attempt to sync with a higher threshold of signal
against noise, with the resulting lower sync speed. I was speaking
to one of the family last week (24 hours into this increased level)
and suggested they monitor how stable the connection was over weekend,
rather than try to get suggestions for "improvement" from me without them
seeing the difference over a longer period - 24 hours seemed far too short
IMO for them to know if it really was being more stable or not...

After all, it was the problem _once down_ of not coming back online for
several hours which was their _significant_ problem, and speed was a
secondary issue. They've even been tempted to switch ISP (to go back to
a 'stable' 2000 kbps) if Zen won't let them (I am unsure whether Zen will
allow it, and indeed I don't know what speed they were on before they asked
to go to DSL Max - it was their pushy son {age 12, I think} who pestered
for them to get a faster connection, and all have hated the effect of the
switch, though from past checks they did previously have a poor stability
level, IMO, but the reconnections were prompt, whilst with DSL Max it was
taking hours at a time to get back online).

There are also some electric fences in the areas around them, which may
have had some detrimental effects, and that's another area which they
were going to investigate... so different, but also problematic,
and you're not alone !!

"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:k%I6h.982$k74.66@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk.. .
True, but probably overkill for my needs. There is always the 0845 dial-up
if really necessary.

Usually less than an hour.

I was hoping there was something I could tweak in the router setup...

Trev wrote in message
455b4b4a$0$18048$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:

Interesting that it takes so long and yet eventually it does succeed in
connecting.

I wouldn't have thought that a noise margin of 12 dB downstream is anything
to get worried about. My Netgear DG834GT reports 14.9 dB down / 24 dB up, so
the downstream margin is only about 3 dB better than yours. I get 8 Mbps /
488 Kbps. This is for a line that's probably about 300 metres from the
exchange.

Your problem may be more the attenuation than the noise margin. This is
probably where my results are significantly better than yours: 7 dB down / 6
dB up.

Given that your noise margin varies at differnt times during the day, have
you ever found that your router seems to sync more quickly during times of
higher noise margin? Obviously if it's taking 12 hours to resync, you don't
want to do any comparative tests at different times of day if it's going to
take that long to re-connect after each test!

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:15:35 -0000, "Trev" <spam@nowhere.com> wrote:

no, 20s or so, perhaps a minute if the conditions aren't good.

12 hours to resync is more like 12 hours waiting for the conditions to
be such that a resync is achievable.

Phil
--
http://www.notspot.info/ - if you can't get the Broadband you want.

Phil Thompson wrote in message
76pml2huc9qkjmh5h7h4lls2guv7svgm5s@4ax.com:

I've just tested my Netgear DG834GT. With a "ping -t" to an external site
running continuously, timings were as follows:

Test run 1
==========

Elapsed
time

0 sec router turned on
19 sec ADSL light stops flashing orange and turns steady green
96 sec ping -t starts getting replies


Test run 2
==========

Elapsed
time

0 sec router turned on
19 sec ADSL light stops flashing orange and turns steady green
20 sec ping -t starts getting replies


Test run 3
==========

Elapsed
time

0 sec router turned on
19 sec ADSL light stops flashing orange and turns steady green
35 sec ping -t starts getting replies



So the time to show a steady ADSL light (corresponding to "LCP is allowed to
come up" in the log) is constant 19 seconds. There is then a variable time
for CHAP authentication to succeed, presumably dependent on how long it
takes my ISP (PlusNet) to validate the logon.

On 15 Nov 2006, "Trev" <spam@nowhere.com> wrote:

understood, but some low cost UPS are under 50 quid, and the low power use
of a router should be handled for several hours (just make sure you don't
plug anything else in as well, just in case... a laptop running off its
internal battery, and using a cable connection into the router would be
an ideal option, if power disruptions were ever to be more commonplace
(where my Mum was living they seemed quite common, but she just went
to bed and put the {battery} radio on for company!)

"NoNeedToKnow" <me@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:u4nml25krbf3cv6gsl320jv209gfkf18j1@complete-pc-services.info...

I haven't put this specific question to them, yet, though I have mentioned
the problem many times when they go through the "Have you reset the router?"
routine in the process of getting my connection to work at all...

Exactly.

Interesting. I switched from Home 250, which had become unusable although it
was OK a year ago. But it always took hours to sync after a reset.

Thanks!

On 15 Nov 2006, Phil Thompson <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote:

Prior to switching to a one-port Zyxel router, around a month ago, I was
getting disconnections a few times a day (which were a bit more than a
minor irritation, as they interfered with streaming services I use).

When I was disconnected, one router (an old, PTI/Conexant chipset, 4-port
model AMX-CA64 ) had relay clicks every ~10 seconds for up to 2 minutes
before it would get back into sync. Having switched router, I've not
yet known of any disconnections (unless deliberately because of some
config change/power point changes, while decorating).

Never known as long as 10 minutes, let alone hours though, fortunately...
(except for a wet Sunday afternoon when many connections using Eclipse
were down, of course... but that wasn't a local problem, and certainly
not a router related thing :-)

--
Change to DSL Max the way I did: switch ISP <http://www.dslmax.info/>

"Martin Underwood" <a@b> wrote in message
news:455b6169$0$8715$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
Nor me!

My downstream attenuation is given as 63 db - which is offscale, I
understand. Upstream is around 15 db. When I was on Home 250, the noise
margin used to drift down to zero from a maximum of about 9 db. If sync was
then lost, I was not surprised it took hours to re-sync, usually overnight.
But I am surprised that it now takes just as long with a much better
apparent noise margin (that so far has not gone down anywhere near zero at
any time of day), and when it stays reliably connected for weeks unless the
router is switched off for any reason. Weird or what?

"Phil Thompson" <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:76pml2huc9qkjmh5h7h4lls2guv7svgm5s@4ax.com...
I could live with that...

That is what is puzzling me: I can switch off the router when the noise
margin has been 10 or 12 db for hours, turn it back on immediately when the
line / signal conditions should not have changed significantly, and yet it
takes half a day to re-sync!

Trev

"NoNeedToKnow" <me@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:dksml21pp3pi5lml5662fb67vnmagve6jl@complete-pc-services.info...
Yes, thanks, I have been looking into UPSs since you suggested them - I must
say I thought they would cost more. All I would need then would be a gizmo
to go around resetting time switches, VCR, cooker clock, microwave oven
clock etc... (In fact I have given up on the last two - life is too
short...).

Trev.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:33:42 -0000, "Trev" <spam@nowhere.com> wrote:

I can achieve the same thing by setting a maximum downstream speed
limit at a certain value, it seems to present an equation the firmware
can't solve. A different chipset / firmware box may be perfectly
happy, who knows.

Phil
--
http://www.notspot.info/ - if you can't get the Broadband you want.

"Phil Thompson" <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:231nl2hrmsm4k7sfhshchokrcduses4i3g@4ax.com...
Well, as I mentioned, I tried a Draytek 2800 with 3 different firmwares and
with and without a limit of 256 k on the d/s speed, and never got sync at
all, nor have any of the routers tried by visiting BT engineers sync'ed
(albeit for trial times up to "only" about 15 mins.), so the boxes certainly
vary. Incidentally, the only thing I have ever found locally to lower the
noise margin was bringing the router close to the psu, which was not too
surprising.

Trev

On 15 Nov 2006, Phil Thompson <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote:

I nkow it would be "painful" in the extreme, but have you considered trying
various speeds and logging which work OK, and which don't? I recall that a
Billion model of router was mentioned on ADSL Guide in connection with that
'set the upper speed' description (multiples of 32 kbps from memory, BICBW)

Hi,

Are you sure that its a re sync problem and not a log-on problem.
I'v seen routers take 30-60 seconds to re-sync but take hours to
actually logon to PPPoA/E.

Wombat

"Trev" <spam@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Wombat" <None@given> wrote in message
news:nheol254g368emd88sar37f1n6447td6t5@4ax.com...
How do I tell? When the DG834's 3rd led from the left is flashing the router
status is "disconnected" and all the speeds, attenuations etc are zero.
When the led is continuously lit, the router status is "connected" and I get
the usual non-zero stats, and I am connected to the net. When I tried the
Draytek, the status alternated between "handshaking" and "training" every
few seconds, again with all the usual stats at zero.

Trev.

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:27:53 -0000, "Trev" <spam@nowhere.com> wrote:

zero stats means out of sync. The other would be a PPP failure or the
like. Some routers have an ADSL light and an Internet light to help
diagnose these things.

Phil
--
http://www.notspot.info/ - if you can't get the Broadband you want.