Has anyone had any issues with ISPs offering "unlimited" bandwidth and then
receiving emails from them because you're downloading 150GB a month???!!!

Mike wrote:
Yep, Plusnet are starting to do it & more & more will jump on the wagon as
BT Wholesale change their pricing structure from per connection to bandwidth
usage...

On 27 Dec 2004 in uk.telecom.broadband, Mike wrote:

Who are you with at present (Pipex?) and did they do that to you already ?



--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP : UK Free Software Network <http://www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

In message <p0t0t01ihu80stq6uki49sv4s8iik2k4vn@4ax.com>, Mike
<nospam@thanks.com> writes
that ISPs are acting now.
--
Pete Devlin
[{//////news03//////at\\\\\secondrow/////co\\\\\uk}]
"Mind the oranges Marlon!"

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:46:19 +0000, Mike <nospam@thanks.com> wrote:

Are your sure your ISP explicity offered "unlimited" bandwidth? Is it
advertised as such?

pete devlin wrote:

No it's not, a 24/7 connection is there to be used.

I do not download anywhere near 150GB/month by the way. 15 maybe. So
save your flames.

On 27 Dec 2004, in uk.telecom.broadband, Anton Gÿsen wrote:

in a contended environment, it is "there to be used" without detriment to
other users. You know as well as I do that if all who were connected did
try to 'max out' their link for even 6 hours a day, they'd all notice !

Saw no flames... just a comment many would accept or agree with. PGM.



--
PlusNet <http://tinyurl.com/24ymz> - I recommend them and save some cash.

My other ISP : UK Free Software Network <http://www.ukfsn.org>
UKFSN passes all profits to Free Software projects in the UK.

"pete devlin" <spamtrap@secondrow.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7QBhBCKxTI0BFw4Y@sukmabobby.com...
A certain package your ISP offers disagrees with your tripe.

"kraftee" <kraftee@spamoff& die.com> wrote in message
news:41d078d9$0$42976$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
Thats an assumption, I so far have not heard of any ISP that sold an
unlimited service bringing limits into place. Your ISP is basically a BT
bed buddy now, and that is all there is to it.

In message <41d09b25$0$14600$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>, Anton
Gÿsen <anton@REMOVETHECAPITALLETTERSantongijsen.com> writes
Do you know the wheel has gone full circle and we were having these
arguments when the first "always on" dial up companies started feeling
the pain from heavy users?
PN have got things about right by contending all their heavy users
together. Otherwise everybody has to pay the real cost of the max
possible bandwidth usage every month OR the majority pay for the
excesses of the few. That's ok until the few start degrading the service
of the rest. Now the marketers are definitely wrong in selling a product
that is "unlimited" but for the vast majority 150GB might as well be.
I'm sorry but that amount of bandwidth _is_ taking the piss. I feel
guilty hitting 25GB or so!
--
Pete Devlin
[{//////news03//////at\\\\\secondrow/////co\\\\\uk}]
"Mind the oranges Marlon!"

In message <cqqa29$jn4$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, Dave
<not.valid.for@privacy.net> writes
--
Pete Devlin
[{//////news03//////at\\\\\secondrow/////co\\\\\uk}]
"Mind the oranges Marlon!"

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:46:19 +0000, Mike <nospam@thanks.com> wrote:

IIRC no ISP has actually offered (assuming that they know what they
are talking about) "unlimited bandwidth" - as bandwidth is an
instantaneous throughput measurement and DSL lines have stated limits,
e.g. 512Kbps or 2Mbps peak. "unlimited bandwidth" would mean that you
could go to, for example, 99999999999999999999Mbps, which is not
possible with current technology.

Even with a 2Mbps DSL line on a consumer (50:1) contract, you are
only paying for 1/50th of the 2Mbps with the option to burst to 2Mbps
when other users on the shared section of the connection allow.

Assuming that you mean data transfer however...

...as you seem to. It depends on your T&C's - do they have a
*hidden* "reasonable usage" clause - as so many of the unmettered
dial-up ISP's used to.

If they do not have such a clause, you should be allowed to request
as much data as you want - bearing in mind that you and all the other
users on the "shared" connection agreed to share the connection at a
50:1 ratio when you signed the contract. Hence, if you (or I) only get
1/50th of 2Mbps from a 2Mbps consumer DSL line, then we are getting
what we paid for - even if it is not what we want or think we paid
for! And yes, that applies to PN customers who want a 1:1 connection
whilst paying for a 50:1 connection too ;-)

FWIW I've never had any such problems with Demon (unmeterred
dial-up) or Clara (no data transfer limits on DSL).

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On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:04:26 +0000, Peter M <us-mail@rocketmail.com>
wrote:

It is there to be used in accordance with the service T&C's. If the
T&C's do not state a maximum data transfer limit (whether per month or
per week, etc.) then you are free - as is every other user on that
shared connection to request as much data as you like.

Yes, and that is what the "50:1 contention ratio" tells you before
you sign up to an ADSL service... not that anyone expects to get
1/50th of the *maximum* bandwidth they pay for... neither does anyone
(apparently) understand the meaning of the term "contention" these
days

And, now we're now seeing the first signs of people not accepting
the limitations of DSL which were predicted between it's announcement
and launch.

At the end of the day, every customer has paid for 1/50th (or
1/20th) of the maximum rate and anything else is a "bonus" in terms of
the contract and the service description. Back when DSL was announced
in the UK I, and others, commented on this and were told that "no ISP
would ever contend connections in real life"... Technically a 1:1 ISDN
ML-PPP connection still offers better *guaranteed* bandwidth than a
2Mbps ADSL line (between you and your ISP), but ADSL can burst higher.

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On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:30:21 +0000, Peter M <us-mail@rocketmail.com> wrote:

No, but I wondered if anyone else has, on any ISP.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:56:01 +0000, pete devlin <spamtrap@secondrow.co.uk>
wrote:

No it bloody isn't, I'm making full use of it,. Thats a maximum anyway, it'll
probably only be 100GB.

What are you suggesting people will use 8MB for when it comes in? Download their
quota in a couple of hours?

IBesides, I'd quite happily pay double as long as there was no limits.

And by the way, 100GB is nothing, a few films and TV series. We live in a
different world now you know! :-)

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:08:12 +0000, Stuart Millington <news@dsv1.co.uk> wrote:

Yes sorry, of course I meant data transfer. I couldn't care less if I didn't get
full speed all the time.


Dunno, I suspect so but didn't read it before I signed up:-
http://www.solo.pipex.net/xtreme-sol...rvice=solo1000
(Solo1000)

I haven't received an email, I'm just wondering if anyone has on any ISP that
offers similar service.

If as the other post suggest changes to BT wholesale take place, I suspect we
all will.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:46:19 +0000, Mike <nospam@thanks.com> wrote:

No, but some of us have great trouble with Plus Net offering unlimited
service and then giving us no email for two days.

Dave <not.valid.for@privacy.net> wrote:
The BT price list is available on the BT website, and lists charges for
ISPs.

Both of the newer methods of charging lines (that are slightly cheaper up
front so allowing lower 'sticker' prices) are more expensive per byte than
the initial method of charging (which is going away in a few months).
(you can't mix connection types if you're an ISP)

From the price list, you can deduce absolute maximums for the profit an ISP
is making per line, assuming they don't have to feed their technical people
or buy servers.
This isn't a large number, IIRC 3 or 4 quid a month.

A user maxing out a line can easily cost the ISP several hundred pounds
a month in bandwidth charges.

Given that many of the heavy users of ISPs that introduce limiting are likely
to go to ISPs that don't currently, those ISPs are very likely to do the
same, unless they decide to subsidise the buisness for some reason.

In message <3av1t09f3be7d0qb83d3ie2q8565um8vqm@4ax.com>, Mike
<nospam@thanks.com> writes
I hope you're not contending with me!
I would hope that it is only offered when the backbones and exchanges
are expanded enough to cope with it.

If you paid double I do believe your ISP will still be making a loss out
of you!

Sky TV and a video capture card is quicker and easier you know!

--
Pete Devlin
[{//////news03//////at\\\\\secondrow/////co\\\\\uk}]
"Mind the oranges Marlon!"

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 06:42:08 +0000, Mike <nospam@thanks.com> wrote:
They have the standard network protection clause in the AUP:

"Without prejudice to the foregoing, PIPEX considers that any
application that overloads the Network utilised by PIPEX services by
whatever means will be considered as making profligate use of the
Network utilised by PIPEX services and is as such NOT allowed."

Along with the "you can't download copyright material" terms. They,
along with most ISP's, could find a reason to kick many high usage
users - if they chose to. However, they don't seem to have any blatant
"unlimited, but not really" stuff in there.

Demon, despite their problems, have always honoured their
unmettered/unlimited statements. When I had ISDN, with Smurftime on a
PCP account, my line was connected for days at a time (2 channels) and
I never had a complaint.

Equally with Clara on DSL (about 1 1/2 years+) I've queued stuff
for downloading and left it running for days with no problem. I'm not
in the 150GB per month category though ;-)

As for other ISP's, I haven't used any for years. But, I would
expect that the ones (like BT & FS) who kicked users for connecting
for too long on "unmettered" dial-up connections are going to be the
ones who use/abuse "unlimited" contract terms.

BT has already moved to CBP & UBP and want ISP's to move with them.
Hence, many more ISP's offering capped connections. Although, unlike
the dial-up days, most appear to be up front and honest about the
limits.

Even with BT's new charging schemes, I believe that some of the
older ISP's will continue to offer unlimited connections - albeit not
at the bargain basement prices of the capped connections. However, it
seems that BT are doing their best to prevent newer and smaller ISP's
from offering such connections.

It's likely, IMO, that we'll see the effects of contention being
applied and people complaining because they can't get the maximum line
speed 24/7.

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