When life is simple, and a customer has a line sync problem, the isolation
of the household phone wiring in most cases solves the problem. With an NTE5
master socket, this is simplicity in itself (to test), and quite simple to
fit a faceplate over the socket.

What about older systems without the master socket?

I have come across a few properties with nothing more then a small rounded
rectangular box above the front door, connecting the bt wire to the house.
In this situation it is, without getting in to deep, possible to isolate the
internal wiring, and it makes troubleshooting with the customer support
neigh on impossible.

'Peter' with the suspicious indian accent does not seem to comprehend the
situation where no master socket is available to plug into.

In the scenario of no master socket, what is the best (path of least
resistance) way of getting BT out to come and install one?? If you pester
the isp enough they will send BT out, but it is hard work, will BT came out
from a residential faults complaint about a master socket??? In this
situation, is it chargable?

Gaz

"Gaz" <gazter@msn.com> wrote in message
news:43uf6cF1prfm8U1@individual.net...
"When life is simple, and a customer has a line sync What about older
systems without the master socket?"

There are relatively few 'hardwired' installations left as you describe. 99%
Will have some form of plug type master socket. The plug socket has been
around for the last 25 or so years. THe excpetion to this is the old lady
with the bell phone. However as she is not likely to be woried about the
internet, modems and broadband she ain't to worried about and NTE5!

It's not as easy to work with a hardwired master socket as an NTE5 but you
are still entitled to enter it if it has extensions coming off of it. In
such a case you remove the extensions and test to the socket.

I think you can ask your service provider (BT) to change the socket to an
NTE5 and they should send open reach in to do it. However make sure they
don't try and charge for it as a 'conversion' which they often do.

Sucuba Dude wrote:
I have come across two households in the last couple of weeks with old style
sockets. How can I verify that is not a charged for service? Should the
customer 'complain' about the line quality, the old classic intermittent
fault?

Gaz

Gaz wrote:
In this situation I assume the subscriber is still renting their phone from
BT, maybe if they asked to have the phone taken out and a socket fitted it
could be done at no cost. I don't know if this could be done or not, but
it's probaly worth a phone call to find out.
--
Adrian A

Adrian wrote:
The phones themselves are not hard wired, ie, they have regular extensions
coming from the master..... So are usuable for all regular phones....

Gaz

"Gaz" <gazter@msn.com> wrote in message
news:43ugfjF1p2dltU1@individual.net...
"The phones themselves are not hard wired, ie, they have regular extensions
In that case in all probability what you have is a star wired set up and
yes, this would be chareable to resolve. Faking an intermittant fault will
get you a charge and your extensions disconnected. Thats the company line on
it. Fault not found = charge customer. Non standard extensions, disconnect
them, fit one master and charge.

Can you not get a box of NTE5's off a willing engineer and just sort these
yourself?

Gaz wrote:

I have just moved house and the new house has no master socket, just
the ols style rounded oblong junction box. The BT engineer came round
to connect our phone and I asked if he would install a modern master
socket as I was about to request ADSL and I thought it might be
advisable for that.

He didn't, which surprised me as I had assumed BT would want to upgrade
if it had the opportunity.

If an engineer has to make a home visit anyway surely it is worth
upgrading to a modern master socket, while they are there?

Andrew

--

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:05:34 +0000 (UTC), in uk.telecom.broadband ,
"Sucuba Dude" <trash@dontthrowyourspamaway.com> wrote:

One can buy NTE5 units from most electrical retailers. Fitting it is a
doddle especially if you have a voltmeter. Wiring diagrams abound.
Mark McIntyre
--

"Mark McIntyre" <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote in message
"One can buy NTE5 units from most electrical retailers. Fitting it is a
doddle especially if you have a voltmeter. Wiring diagrams abound. "

I don't think you can. I think you can get master sockets but I've not seen
anyone selling NTE5's (As BT call them). I imagine the post will now be
flooded with links for them!.......

As for wiring an NTE5. I don't recall needing anything other than a small
Phillips screwdriver as they are not polarity conscious and it either works
or does not work.

Sucuba Dude wrote:
I don't know which part of the country you come from but in the
Midlands what you have said is not true. If an Openreach engineer
goes out on any fault & finds that the internal wiring is old plan 1A
or such they are supposed to bring the wiring up to standard, i.e fit
a NTE5 at no extra charge but it has to be at the first logical place,
not at the customers whim...

After that any internal wiring problems are chargeable but first the
line has to be brought up to standard....

"Kraftee" <kraftee@pleasedon'tspam@kraftee.plus.com> wrote in message
news:43da47a6$0$1474$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
"After that any internal wiring problems are chargeable but first the line
has to be brought up to standard.... "

Sure thats basically what I am saying and I agree. Down here it's would be
the nearest socket to the 78, and that would be free. However, the
extensions would be dissed off and if the customer wanted them working it
would fall as a time related charge to do that part of it.

However, changing sockets under Openreach rules due, for example, to
corrosion or damp, is chargeable. If they had a so called fault, which was
FNF it may be possible to think its a faulty socket and as a result charge
them. Not that I agree with it. That said If you have some pikey EU who has
got me there on a wim to avoid a convert charge I would probably charge them
for trying to dodge the system. I guess it's perception, but if the guy
wants a new master socket and his extensions working thats gonna fall into
the TRC areana.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:15:45 +0000 (UTC), in uk.telecom.broadband ,
"Sucuba Dude" <trash@dontthrowyourspamaway.com> wrote:

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm#NTE5

http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/nte5.htm

(both these articles also explain how you should proceed, so as not to
break the law).

indeed, tho I belive that if you put the -90V at the right side, the
ringer may work better with older phones which lack their own ringer
capacitor.
Mark McIntyre
--

Sucuba Dude wrote:
Like this you mean? ;-)
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...=TE04369&N=411
--
Adrian A

Sucuba Dude wrote:
No, if the internal wiring is correct (as per the old wiring schemes)
you have to reconnect the extensions after putting in the NTE5A. If
after that there is an internal wiring problem then you can raise
charges, but not on the visit where you bring things up to standard.

I guess it's a matter of perception, but that's the way we've been
told to do it up here (& there's me going on about not charging
customers after raising 2 ADSL health check charges against ISP's, not
end users, as they were just wasting my time)...

Mark McIntyre wrote:
90v??????? O ok , you are talking about the AC ringing current aren't
you, otherwise it's 50v

On 27-Jan-2006, "Kraftee" <kraftee@pleasedon'tspam@kraftee.plus.com> wrote:

Some phone connections are polarity conscious, the phone
keeps on ringing until you correct it and modems have problems.
It's a common problem with hotel wiring done by cowboys.
There are testers with LED indicators to test polarity,
it's a pocket tool with a BT plug.
Mine is Eaglehawk with LV, DT, REV, LED's and a LOOP button.
Came from Farnell but don't know if they still do them.
Bought it when we had a batch of duff modems, which when you
plugged them in the phone rang continuously, reversing polarity
fixed it, so had to open up the modems to sort the polarity issue.
Tester said all the BT sockets were correct polarity.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:04:27 -0000, in uk.telecom.broadband ,
"Kraftee" <kraftee@pleasedon'tspam@kraftee.plus.com> wrote:

the ringer is some higher voltage AC, I had 90V in my head for some
reason, maybe its less. The main circuit is -48Vdc as I recall. My
voltmeter is in the shed or I'd check.
In any events I have had experience with wiring up backwards causing
older phones to ring permanently.

Mark McIntyre
--

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:30:57 UTC, Mark McIntyre
<markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote:

You get 90V on ISDN...well, on Highway, anyway.
--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

Bob Eager wrote:
But you wouldn't be getting DSL over it though...

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:20:03 -0000, in uk.telecom.broadband ,
"Kraftee" <kraftee@pleasedon'tspam@kraftee.plus.com> wrote:

at least, not in the UK. Thanks BT, that was a definite moneyspinner
idea you had there... :-)

Mark McIntyre
--