A customer has bought a Belkin router which she wants to add to her existing
NTL cable modem so as to share the connection between two PCs.

In view of sections in the Belkin manual, I'm slightly puzzled as to what is
needed to make the two work together.

The modem is labelled "ntl:home 120, 60194E-A12" and the Belkin router is
labelled " N10117 / F5D5231-4 / Ver 1100".

The modem has Ethernet output to the PC and the router has Ethernet input
(on the WAN side) and four Ethernet outputs (on the LAN side).

Is it as simple as connecting the router's WAN socket to the modem's output
by non-crossover patch cable and then connecting the computers by patch
cables to the router's LAN sockets? I would have thought so, but there are
statements in the router's manual about configuring broadband username and
password for PPPoE. Does this suggest that the router's WAN port sends the
usename and password to the modem so the modem can authenticate with
broadband, possibility mimicking something that the PC does at present when
directly connected to the modem?

Unfortunately I didn't have time to try a simple connect-and-go approach
when I visited the customer to investigate another problem.

"Martin Underwood" <news@isp.net> wrote in message
news:437f2b1e$0$9476$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
I have this router, all I did was connect the WAN port to my cable modem
(ntl 250) and the PC to one of the 4 Ethernet ports on the router, then just
switched everything on and it all worked fine, obviously you then log into
the router and configure the firewall, and port forwarding etc bit that's
all I had to do.

Leigh

"Leigh Albon" <leigh.albone@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:WRGff.17060$mF5.10812@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
Yup all straight forward as Leigh said
I use Belkin +Blueyonder modem
NB all cat5 connection cables are straight Through
--

Yddap
Remove guts to reply

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005, Martin Underwood wrote:

I'm not familiar with the specific models, but I am familiar with the
principles.

I have a similar box (from a different supplier) which has those
things plus wireless. I'll use it as an analogy to answer your
questions.

Yes, that's the idea. Are there some LEDs which will show whether you
have been successful at this level? Until that's working, nothing
else much is going to be any use.

Once the PC has a working Ethernet to the LAN side of the router and
(if you're using the default settings) has got itself assigned an
address on the private network via DHCP from the router (this address
might be 192.168.x.y for some values of x and y), then it should be
possible to open a web browser and talk to the router at 192.168.x.1
(same x as before. googling seems to suggest that your box will
default to x=2).

me too

AFAIK you don't need that for the kind of NTL cable connection which
presents an Ethernet interface.

Mine has a pulldown for connection type, which can be
[ DHCP Client or Fixed IP ]
[ PPPoE ]
[ PPTP ]

When you're looking at the router management web pages with a web
browser, there probably will be some kind of Help menu that might tell
you a bit more about what the router expects.

My hunch is that you're looking for the first of these options, in
which case the PPPoE user name and password are irrelevant.

There's something in the help information about setting a MAC address
if instructed by the provider. Maybe someone who's on NTL will tell
you about that part.

In article <437f2b1e$0$9476$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
news@isp.net says...
Yes.

In article <437f2b1e$0$9476$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, Martin
Underwood wrote:
I have precisely the same setup, but with a router model number F5D5230-4,
which must be an earlier version of the same router. Paraphrasing the
(excellent) instruction book, the stages are:

1. obtain ISP and network info (MAC address, IP address, host name and network
settings. There's a space in the manual to write them down.
2. Power down everything and connect computers to router. Connect WAN port to
modem.
3. Turn on modem. Connect power to router. Check routers WAN Link light is on.
4. Turn on each computer and when they have booted up check the LAN Link
lights are on.
5. Set up TCP/IP and file sharing on each computer (long discourse omitted).
You can use the Belkin CD for this or do it by hand.
6. Configure router for internet connection (set ISPs to "never dial a
connection", "use proxy server" etc. (explanation omitted).
7. Access the router (the IP address of mine is 192.168.2.1). You can then
select dynamic or static IP address and clone the MAC address.
8. Enjoy.

If you need it, there's a reset button on the back of the router.

I've probably given you much more than you need. As a beginner I found the
Belkin manual and set-up software excellent.

--

Jock Mackirdy
Bedford

In article <VA.0000025a.00586929@ntlworld.com>,
jock.mackirdy@ntlworld.com says...
<snip>

For NTL you no longer need to clone the MAC address.
--
Mugwump

Reply to 'usenetmail{at}discworld{dot}org{dot}uk

Martin Underwood wrote:
In this case I think all you'll need to do is turn everything off,
'plumb' it together (output from CM to WAN port & attatch the computer
to one of the LAN ports), turn on CM & wait for it to link, turn on
router & let it synch & then turn on the PC, no worrying about PPOE etc.

Once it's connected together & working then you can play with some of
the settings but it should be as simple as what I stated..

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:39:38 -0000, in uk.telecom.broadband , "Martin
Underwood" <news@isp.net> wrote:

Nearly. You will need to power everything off, then power on the
modem, wait around 30 seconds, then power on the router, wait another
30 secs, then power on a PC. The router should get an IP addy from
ntl, your pc from the router. If you don't power on in the right order
nothing will happen, as ntl won't recognise the router and give it an
address.

Only relevant if the WAN port is for an ADSL connection. You are
/sure/ the router's WAN port is ethernet?

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:33:31 GMT, in uk.telecom.broadband , Jock
Mackirdy <jock.mackirdy@ntlworld.com> wrote:

not required for ntl - they allow at least 3 CPEs with different MACs
at any one installation (though not simultaneously of course, thats
why you need a router).
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

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Jock Mackirdy wrote in
VA.0000025a.00586929@ntlworld.com:

I only had a couple of minutes to glance at the manual - it was one of those
"oh, while you're here" jobs ;-) I presumed it would be as simple as
everyone's described, but was worried by that section about PPPoE and
username/password. If I'd looked a bit more closely (and if I'd taken my
brain out of power-saving mode and realised that PPPoE only relates to ADSL
and not cable), I'd have known that I had to ignore that section!

Thanks for the suggestion about switching on in the correct order:

- modem (wait 30 seconds)
- router (wait seconds)
- first PC

I'll mention that to the customer: hope she remembers to do it in that
order. I dare say she'll leave modem and router turned on permanently. The
difficulty comes if they get switched off due to a power cut or as a
precaution during a storm... I hope it will be obvious from the lights,
without needing to teach her what to look for in ipconfig!

I presume that the router's firewall rules are set to allow http (80) and
email (25/110) traffic through by default, and to allow unlimited LAN (PC to
PC) traffic.

"Martin Underwood" <news@isp.net> wrote in message
news:437f7b5a$0$82653$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
When the landlord has to turn power to the building off for maintanance and
i am not here, i just turn the pc back on, the modem and router have come
back on together with the power, and everything works fine

Leigh

Mark McIntyre wrote:
Actually it's not. The reason you need a router is that NTL only
provide 1 IP adress for each connection, that's the reason you need a
router (& not just a switch/hub)

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005, Kraftee and MISSINGkrafteeTERMINATOR wrote:

Yes, but I think basically you're both saying the same thing, since if
there's only one IP address at the IP level, it can only be associated
with one MAC address at the media level.

If you need more, then that MAC address and IP has to be used as your
gateway, and any other interfaces have to be behind some kind of
router function - which would conveniently and safely be done with a
router box, as is being discussed here.

In earlier times we'd have used one of the computers as a gateway,
running router software in the background to service the other
computers, as well as being a normal computer at the same time. But
that has its risks and complications, so, with router boxes being so
cheap now, it would seem crazy not to use one.

The question of how many different MAC addresses the ISP is willing to
recognise (but only one at a time) must have some other basis (do they
use the MAC address as a form of identification or authentication?).

cheers

Alan J. Flavell wrote:
NTL uses the MAC of the modem/set top box (are they still using them) as
authentication, which is the reason why you can't/shouldn't be able to
take your CM around to another NTL customer & use it instead of theirs.

"Martin Underwood" <news@isp.net> wrote in message
news:437f7b5a$0$82653$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
i did this recently when i upgraded my router to a 802.11g version

the only complication i got (with a set top box, so may be different with a
cable modem) is that PCs going via a new device dont get unlimited access
until i register the MAC address in a self help web page - just about any
web access attempt takes you there

you need the original account name + password / pin to log in and sort this.
Regards

stephen_hope@xyzworld.com - replace xyz with ntl

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 19:21:58 -0000, in uk.telecom.broadband , "Martin
Underwood" <news@isp.net> wrote:

This isn't a problem - once ntl have initially recognised the router's
MAC, and assigned it an IP, you don't need to worry about the above
palaver on subsequent reboots. The 30secs wait the first time is to
allow the router and ntl's servers to have a chat about getting an IP
sorted out and the MAC recorded in some database. Subsequent times,
just let everything come online after the power outage, and it'll
'just work'.

More likely its set to allow EVERYTHING through by default - most
routers come configured with the f/w off.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:24:28 -0000, in uk.telecom.broadband ,
"Kraftee" <kraftee@kraftee.plus.nospamming please we're bristish.com>
wrote:

Actually it is.

We're saying the same thing. I just couldn't be bothered with the full
explanation. The point I was making is that at leat three different
MACs can simultaneously be in ntl's database and hence no need to
clone MACs.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 23:05:05 +0000, in uk.telecom.broadband , "Alan J.
Flavell" <flavell@ph.gla.ac.uk> wrote:

Once upon a time, the cable companies allowed only one MAC. I believe
this was a form of authentication / security. If you changed NIC or
PC, you had to call them to register the new MAC.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

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On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Mark McIntyre wrote:

Since we're talking about a NAT router, I would *hope* that the
default is to allow anything to go *out*, but only to route related
traffic back *in*.