16th September 2004

Dear Sir,

I feel a strong moral obligation to chronicle my issues surrounding
the closure of a broadband account with Demon Internet, in the hope
that I can prevent unsuspecting internet users from a similar fate.

At the end of June I decided to move house, and subsequently issued
Demon Internet with a month's notice of cancellation. I had already
long-since fulfilled my year minimum period, and the end of our
contractual obligations was mutually agreed to be the 14th August
2004. This would provide sufficient overlap with the beginning of an
alternative and, in my opinion, a considerably more professional DSL
service provider at the new property.

When examining my bank account I noted that Demon Internet had debited
an extra month from my card on the 18th August 2004 without my express
authorisation. This was corroborated by an invoice from Demon
Internet, which detailed the payment taken for the service period 13th
August to the 13th September inclusive. As this was four clear days
beyond the mutually agreed end of contract, I contacted Demon Internet
to alert them as to their administrative error. A customer services
representative informed me that Demon Internet were "having a backlog
in cancellations" and that the unauthorised transaction could not be
immediately returned to my card, and furthermore she could not predict
when the account closure would be actioned. In turn, she could not
offer a guarantee that no further unauthorised payments would be
illegally taken from my card.

Following a lengthy conversation regarding the legality of their
unauthorised debit of my card with Demon Internet, I spent a
considerable time on the phone to my bank to discuss withdrawing the
payment. I was informed that it would not be possible, and was left
with no option other than to instruct my bank to issue a formal
warning to Demon Internet and to stress that no further requests for
payment would be authorised. In order to stop the authorised
transactions on my debit card I was advised to cancel my debit card,
which I duly did. The ensuing week granted me no access to my bank
account as the cards were re-issued.

On Thursday the 9th of September I received an email confirmation that
my account closure would be actioned on the 14th of September, over a
month beyond the mutually agreed end of contract. I telephoned Demon
Internet on Friday 10th September, to ensure that the August payment
would be refunded. Another customer services representative
reiterated acknowledgement of the end of contact being the 14th August
and suggested that a refund had been applied to the account and would
be actioned shortly. I alerted her to the fact that the card was
cancelled as a direct result of their unauthorised transactions on my
credit card and that, furthermore, the address details that Demon
Internet held were no longer current. I was assured that a cheque
would be posted to my new address, and that she would telephone me
regarding compensation for the lengthy telephone conversations. As
and as of the time of writing I have not received word from Demon
Internet as to how they intend to resolve my concerns, nor have I
received the monies owed.

I was left to wonder at what stage Demon would attempt to contact me
regarding the refund had I not made the effort to approach them,
despite having current mobile telephone and email address details.
Whilst I appreciate that Demon have a vast customer-base, I would
expect them to take the complaint seriously when they were quite
clearly operating outside the jurisdiction of a contract and the
subsequent protection afforded them in British Law.

I have spent a cumulative total of around two hours discussing these
issues with Demon Internet and a further two hours discussing the
legality with my bank. I feel that this has been drastically
mismanaged and Demon Internet do not seem to have an interest in
expediting my refund.

My question to the newsgroup is two-fold; has anyone else been mauled
by Demon in this manner, and does anyone have the details of the
registered office for Demon, and / or details of their Managing
Director or Financial Controller?

Yours with deep disappointment,
Chris B.

In message <bc923adb.0409281242.7acb7a03@posting.google.com>, Chris
<chris.bailes@myrealbox.com> writes
house on the web.

new card, I've had no problems....
--
Clint Sharp

Chris wrote:
Demon,
Gateway House,
322 Regents Park Road,
Finchley,
London,
N3 2QQ

Phone 020 8371 1000 or 0845 272 0666
Fax 020 8371 1150

Managing Director Bill Allan
Finance Director John Maguire
Parent Company Scottish Power Plc
--
Chris

"Chris" <chris.bailes@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:bc923adb.0409281242.7acb7a03@posting.google.c om...
I work for a smallish company with 60 employees and I look after all the IT
needs of the company, I also had loads of billing problems with Demon, which
amounted to over 300 quid

In time they sorted it out, but there acounts dept are terrible.

On a lighter note Demon have provided an excellent 2mb adsl connection,
which has gone down 3 times this year for less then 1 hour per time, They
are an excellent ISP, but there accounts dept needs work

Ronny

On 28 Sep 2004 13:42:19 -0700, chris.bailes@myrealbox.com (Chris)
wrote:

I have not (yet) cancelled my account with them but I do seem to
recall that it took ages for them to START billing me(!).

On the other hand I have found the quality of their service to be
excellent. My only disappointment lies in the fact that they do not
have a residential 1mb service.

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:17:45 +0100, Chris Lawson <newsgroups@spamtrap.com> wrote:
For the record ...

This is the correct address matters relating to Demon branded products.
It is not the registered address of the Company.

Bill Allen is the Chief Executive Officer (CEO).

John Maguire is Chief Financial Officer.

There is no parent company. Demon is a brand name of THUS plc.

Registered office:

THUS plc.
1/2 Berkeley Square
99 Berkeley Street
Glasgow
G3 7HR

tel: 0141 567 1234
fax: 0141 566 3035

[email followup sent to original poster]

--
Malcolm S. Muir D e m o n
Sunderland 322 Regents Park Road
England London N3 2QQ

"Chris" <chris.bailes@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:bc923adb.0409281242.7acb7a03@posting.google.c om...
I obviously don't know your personal circumstances, but how much money are
we talking about here? Cancelling your debit card was a bit extreme, as was
spending 4 hrs on the phone.
Sweeping generalisation: Customer service from most of these utilities is
crap at the best of times, and when you're leaving you're going to get the
worst of it. But it gets sorted out in the end - it's only a worry if it's
a lot of money and the company might go belly-up.

Malcolm Muir wrote:
I stand corrected.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:55:36 +0100, Chris Lawson <newsgroups@spamtrap.com> wrote:
Not a problem - Just making sure the right details were available to
anyone that feels a need to make 'formal' contact.

I doubt Scottish Power would take kindly to getting a complaint about
Demon

--
Malcolm S. Muir D e m o n
Sunderland 322 Regents Park Road
England London N3 2QQ

"Rory" <rory_fire@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2rvgqvF1fb4g3U1@uni-berlin.de>...
The amount in question is one month subscription, ONLY because I acted
quickly and cancelled my card (on the advice of my banking institution
might I add). When you start a support call with them it is not
obvious that it is going to require further follow on calls with them
and the bank.

Whether or not you deem the money to be inconsequential (in which case
do you need an assistant?), the fact remains that those monies in
question are MY hard-earned pennies, and Demon Internet or otherwise
have no right to a claim on those pennies.

I have informed Demon Internet via letter that I am prepared to take
legal action unless this and all costs and loses are covered to our
mutual satisfaction.

There is REALLY no excuse for crap customer service from anyone, all
that suggest is that my custom is not important. It's possible
because of people that share your attitude that Demon Internet and
others are allowed to get away with sub-standard customer service.
You really ahve no one to blame but yourselves.

On a more positive note - I have made contact with Malcolm via email
and we are working to resolve this problem. Even in the biggest field
of mature it is possible to find the odd rose it seems.

Regards,
Chris.

On 28 Sep 2004 13:42:19 -0700, chris.bailes@myrealbox.com (Chris)
wrote:
I had a similar experience. In my case, they first refused to accept
my cancellation instruction, saying "you have to email from your demon
account" - which I did - and then asked for my customer ID, which
demon didn't issue in 1995, and /then/ started playing total silly
b*ggers, replying to all my emails by sending me a form email asking
for the same info - name, address, reason for cancelling - that I'd
sent them in the email to which they were replying. I had about three
trips round that loop.

I was only marginally surprised when they finally agreed to cancel,
one day after they'd taken an extra month's payment. Mind you, to get
that far I had to fax them a "cease and desist".

Its a waste of time. They'll either ignore you till you go away, or
else send you a form letter stating your original request was invalid
for this reason and that, not sent to the right dept, sent by email
not by elephant, didn't come from the right post-code, or whatever and
leave you with two choices: give up, or waste time trying again.

This was all a considerable disappointment as I'd had 8 very
satisfactory years with Demon, and would probably have considered them
for ADSL had they not t*tted me about so stupidly.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:52:36 +0000 (UTC), malcolm@demon.net (Malcolm
Muir) wrote:

Although to be fair, THUS is I believe still majority-owned by
ScottishPower Group.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:16:43 GMT, Mark McIntyre <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote:
Nope. Scottish Power have no declarable interest in THUS.

--
Malcolm S. Muir D e m o n
Sunderland 322 Regents Park Road
England London N3 2QQ

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:19:05 +0000 (UTC), malcolm@demon.net (Malcolm
Muir) wrote:

Then you (Thus/Demon) need to update your website - the company
history pages imply otherwise. :-)

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:41:39 GMT, Mark McIntyre <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote:
[snip]

Care to give me a URL ? I am not aware of any Company History pages on
www.demon.net other than press releases, which of course are a snapshot
in time from the date they were published.

--
Malcolm S. Muir D e m o n
Sunderland 322 Regents Park Road
England London N3 2QQ

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:26:17 +0000 (UTC), malcolm@demon.net (Malcolm
Muir) wrote:

Malcolm,
I was looking on the Thus website www.thus.net, in the Company History
section.
regards
Mark

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 19:53:13 GMT, Mark McIntyre <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote:
You mean the page that says "In March 2002, as well as undergoing
capital restructuring, THUS plc was demerged from the ScottishPower
Group." ?

How does that imply Scottish Power still have an interest in THUS ?

--
Malcolm S. Muir D e m o n
Sunderland 322 Regents Park Road
England London N3 2QQ

"Malcolm Muir" <malcolm@demon.net> wrote in message
news:slrnclrfd9.k7d.malcolm@muir-et5.staff.demon.net...
Advantage Muir.

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:50:27 GMT, "P.E." <Grock426mef5%@virgin.net>
wrote:

Its not a competition. Its how I read that section of the website when
taken in its entirety. To quote it in full:

"...The rapid development of the business led to the flotation of THUS
plc on the London Stock Exchange in November 1999, with ScottishPower
remaining a major shareholder.

In March 2002, as well as undergoing capital restructuring, THUS plc
was demerged from the ScottishPower Group. As a result, not only have
we expanded our shareholder base..."

It may well be that the demerger consisted of selling off the entire
of SP's stake, but it doesn't say so, unless you take "expanded" to
mean "totally changed" which is a possible, tho unusual, meaning.

EOC.

"Mark McIntyre" <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:q54ul01b0uqu1ai0empi2o94o3t0kb3bst@4ax.com...