As per many other posters, I have poor realised download speeds on an
8Mb adsl service.

My router (a netgear DG834G) shows sync speed as ~6Mb, DS attenuation
at 30db, but a noise margin of between 1 and 6 db. Noise margin is
occasionally shown as a very large number, which I presume to mean it
has gone negative and the router stats page has a bug(?)

Although my house is only ~10 years old, I cannot locate a master
socket (of either NTE-5 style, or older style - no capacitors behind
the faceplates). Unfortunately, I have recently had a loft conversion
and the BT drop cable (from overhead line) disappears from view (i am
not demolishing the new bedroom/bathroom to get to it!). So I cannot
test a master socket.

I have the router near my PC, plugged into a socket with a dangly adsl
filter to break out a filtered line for my dect phone base. The only
other equipment is a sky box plugged into another socket (with dangly
filter) via a long extension wire. There is another (unused) socket
in the kitchen.

nearest the bt drop).

All I've tried so far is replacing the dangly filter with a faceplate
and disconnecting the in and out ring wires from that socket (the one
the router connects to). That had no effect.

I have booked an engineer visit from BT, to install a new master
socket (and possibly one or more extensions). What I'd like is advice
on how to wire up my extensions and what to ask the engineer to do.

I was thinking of getting a master socket installed in the loft, very
close to the point of entry, and using an adslnation NTE-2005 or
similar. From there I have a few choices. 1) Move my router up to the
crawl space in the loft and hooking it up to the network via a spare
ethernet outlet I had installed. [I would need a new ethernet switch
near the PC to patch the other network cables]. The DECT phone base
could also go here, I suppose. The sky box would still need a
(filtered) extension somewhere accessible. 2) Hook up both filtered
and unfiltered pairs to the new master socket and run separate lines
downstairs. Is it possible/advisable to run these over different
pairs on a single cat5/6 cable? I have plenty of cat6 spare and could
run the cable out of site along the route of my other network
cabling. Would the BT engineer be willing or able to do this for me?
Or am I best to just get him to do the master socket and then rewire
extensions myself.

Any advice welcome....

duncanjhartley@gmail.com wrote:
Quite possibly, you have to remember if you are on ADSL MAX the target
SNR will be 6dB unless you convince your ISP to have it raised (I had
mine raised, whilst I was at PN, so the target was 9dB) which could
make your connection more stable
OOOOooppps, poor planning there, but you aren't the first & most
deffinitely wont be the last...
You have to do that at the master to be completely covered, anywhere
afterwards may make no difference.
Some BT engineers will refuse to work in lofts, a lot will depend on
how good the access will be & how easy it is to get around it.
Another question which rears it head is how will he be able to connect
back onto your existing extensions, not unless you are willing to wave
goodby to them.

One BIG problem......heat, it will get extremely hot up there during
any sunny days, how hot will depend on what time of year it is...


Once again heat is your main problem

If you fit a faceplate filter you will not (normally) require any
other filtering.

ref my first remark are you just going to get the engineer to fit the
master near your loft hatch & not bother with any existing extensions?

If you believe you may already have a crosstalk problem then use 2
cables, you can use a spare pair in a cat5 cable but you may have
crosstalk.

You've answered my first point now, yes he may be able but willing
could be another matter, being honest if you know what you're doing &
have a modicum of common sense I would recomend that you do it
yourself, that way it'll be done the way you want it to be.

One thing you haven't stated is what is your synch speed?

kraftee wrote:

" > My router (a netgear DG834G) shows sync speed as ~6Mb, " !

Graham

If your sync speed is 6 meg you are not going to get much better are you?

How far are you from the exchange?

Alec
<duncanjhartley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172664845.757981.143310@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...

Eeyore wrote:
Missed that line, wonder if the OP thinks it's worth the £120+ & all
the extra work he is going to have to put in to get that extra 1.5Mb,
anyway my original reply is still of some worth....

<duncanjhartley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172664845.757981.143310@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
Don't use Cat5 cable for line extensions, I've tried it and it was a
disaster. A cheap flat extension cable was superior for BB.

Probably due to the incorrect impedance (Cat 5 is 100ohm and line wiring
cable is 600 ohm)

Bob S

On 28 Feb, 15:45, "Alec" <alechop...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
download speeds of anywhere near that, because the poor noise margin
causes many errors and eventually dropped sync.

It's the stability that's more of an issue. And, being a bit geeky, I
want the best set-up I can!
30db seems to indicate that 5-6Mb is attainable.

Bob Smith wrote:

Where do you get the 600 ohms from ? I'll bet you it isn't.

Graham

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45E5B5AF.8A330C18@hotmail.com...
600 ohms is well known as the characteristic impedance of BT lines and has
been for many years.

Bob S

The 600 ohm figure is that achieved by the older open wire systems on
telegraph poles.

The modern twisted pairs will be nearer 100 ohm.

Alec


"Bob Smith" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
news:45e5b98c$0$8736$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

"Alec" <alechopley@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:u9mdnUOTw86DRHjYnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@pipex.net...
Also flat extension wiring is not ideal for 2 reasons,

Firstly it is normally stranded & with many the actual metalic content
is very low, stranded equates to inherent built in noise (which is why
proper telephone cables are all solid core)
Secondly it's not twisted & so is liable to pick up from any stray RF
fields it passes close to unlike twisted pair which would be going in
& out of phase with the signal & so is affected less by them...

Bob Smith wrote:

No, it's the impedance of the audio circuits. In fact even those aren't actually
600 ohms.

The characterisitc impedance of the *cable* at RF is in the 100 ohm region.

Beware of such 'well known facts* you quoted !

Graham

Alec wrote:

Ah yes, that's where it comes from.

Correct.

Graham

kraftee wrote:


Bit like the Sky installer at a relations house who refused to cable along
some pebbledash as his clips would not go in.
Refused to go along the (plastic) fascia in case it cracked.
Refused to go via the loft (not allowed to go up there in case they fall
through ceiling).
Wouldn't go anywhere near almost flat garage roof.
Wouldn't drill through garage door frame - was going to insist on
drilling through thick wall instead!

Needless to say we installed the three cables (for Sky+ and extra
box)ourselves and got praise for good job from later Sky installer!!

Mike

Bob Smith wrote:

cable construction and not sure wat internal thin cable is like!!

Mike

m wrote:
Well it could look a mess which opens up the chance of a customer
complaint..

Has been known to happen, which would lead him to incure a repair bill
if the customer complained

Basic risk assesment & health & safety

Likewise health & safety..

This one is little bit trickier, but it comes down to how old is the
garage door frame & is it likely to be replaced in the foreseeable
future....

Well if you did a custom job & damage your house it's up to you to get
it repaired. If you used a modicum of common sense you would be able
to run the cable in a professional manner. What gets me are the sky
fitters who don't even carry ladders nowadays due to 'health & safety'
(this time that is just an excuse) so they fit the dish just above
head height & when they've fitted it you have little or no chance of
getting it moved.

"John Naismith" <jts@naismith.org.uk> wrote in message
newsapbu25daudqko332260uvoaphaus96ajq@4ax.com...
The cable that comes with the router isn't twisted.
Not all cables are the same quality, twisted or not.

I am and I do not believe that it is just because the extensions are
untwisted.
There are other factors involved.

dennis@home wrote:
But is balanced & is only relatively short

True it's just that flat extension wiring exasperates the other
problems, namely REIN from electrical equipment in your house & even
possibly your neighbours, depending on phasing & how strong the signal
is. Remember that the bell wire makes for a great aeriel anyway, so
why make matters worse?

Or you could be like one end user who got hit with a £150 bill because
they refused to do anything about the flat extension cabling he had to
his router which effectively doubled his loop loss & reduced his SNR
to a very low figure, in doing so making his service unstable. 3
times he was advised, but only changed it out after he got hit by the
bill.

I've only seen one flat extension cable kit which didn't have some
detremental affect on the dsl service & that one was being sold for
DSL & incorporated filters etc.

It's your choice, your service & your money so if you decide to go
ahead & use flat extension cabling fine, it's only you who will
experience any problems, but you have been advised....

kraftee wrote:
Oh sorry I forgot, if you talked about the short lead between filter &
router/modem being flat, well if you try & source an ADSL2 lead it
will be twisted pair.

"dennis@home" wrote:

Define 'quality' in some meaningful, scientific and relevant way that isn't
utterly nebulous and silly please. Does the colour of the cable help for example
? If it was made by naked virgins under the light of a full moon will the Mbps
figure be 'better' ?


What you *BELIEVE* means bugger all. Have you ever learnt even the tiniest
fundamentals of basic electromagnetic theory ?


Space Aliens perhaps ?

Graham