I'm a little confused by the pricing on the Plusnet website. It states
that you can get the service, with a free modem and one year contract
with free setup. But later on it states that if you cancel after a
year, you'll owe them the cost of the modem plus 58.75 less 11.75 for
every year that you stay with them. Hence it looks to me like a lot
more than just 1 year contract if you have to pay to migrate.

Likewise there are dropdown boxes for options to pay 11.75 or 58.75 on
startup and these seem to give no benefit at all.

If someone from plusnet is here, perhaps they could comment.

Geoff

Geoff wrote:
Hi there,

Lets firstly assume you choose the 'Free Activation and Modem' Offer.

You have the choice of signing up to an annual or monthly contract. The
monthlyl contract incurs an additional £11.75 surcharge.

If you choose an annual contract and decide to leave within the first 12
months, then you are contracted to pay the remainder of your 12 months
subscription costs.

If you choose a monthly contract and leave within the first 12 months
then we just require 30 days notice.

In addition to the above, and assuming you opted for the activation and
modem offer, you would be asked to pay back a proportion of the setup
fees should you leave within the first 5 years service.

These fees are detailed here:-

http://www.plus.net/residential/broa...reesetup.shtml

Despite the above, you are still only bound to your contract for a month
or a year dependent on what you opt for.

--
|Bob Pullen Broadband Solutions for
|Support Home & Business @
|PlusNet plc. www.plus.net
+------ PlusNet - The smarter way to Internet! -----

On 24 May 2005 13:05, Geoff <geoff@lid.gold.ac.uk> wrote:

I'd suggest it as a 'deferred payment' which reduces over time...

I've complained in the plusnet.service.customer-feedback group that when
putting a graphic or description of 'Free' the implication is something
other than what is explained in the smaller print on a different page,
that their offer is "You Stay, We Pay". Personally I think it is quite
misleading, but some comments from some other customers seem to think
that it is acceptable:

"a fairly standard type of offer in UK retail - similar in a way to
loyalty type cards in supermarkets - and boils down to 'Stick with us
and you save money'. Nothing world shattering, and the use of the
word 'free' in such circumstances is acceptable."

"To me that is genuinely free. There are plenty of worse "free" offers
around. Buy this, get that free, spend £100, get £2 worth of goods
free... None of these are free, but perfectly legals to advertise as
being free. Plusnets offer IS free, you just have to abide by the
terms, which are given up front..."

On the other hand, a few agreed this was not acceptable.

"Free over 5 years" would be more honest and upfront.

"it says there's "no catch". Yes there is a catch, the catch is that
you have to stay for 5 years. And I have to agree that 5 years is
rather excessive, most ISP's will give you free activation if you
stay for 12 months, and let's face it, how many people are going to
stay in the same house on the same broadband package for 5 years ?"

"I have to say this has taken me by surprise - I migrated to PlusNet
with a £14.99 charged waived if I stay a year. That's fine, prefectly
normal and acceptable, but FIVE YEARS for setup charges to go away?"

Someone else posted:

"More to the point, if they just said "free" in their adverts without
mentioning the conditions (and indeed quite a few of the pages on the
PN website do this), the ASA would have something to say about it.
Perhaps this is one of the reasons why PN doesn't advertise? I'm also
pretty certain the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations
takes a dim view of "free" offers where the conditions are unclear
or not made obvious.

A 5 year lock in period is ridiculous anyway. 5 years ago FRIACO and
ADSL were both very new and experimental. Redhotant, Liberty Surf and
Breathe were some of the bigger players and they promptly went bust. ...
Who can say what the broadband market will be like in 5 years time?
With things like ADSL2+ and 21CN it is likely to be very different."

That last one did cause a response from Plus.Net, as it went on to
mention ADSL2...

"The five years isn't a "lock-in" you can leave at any time. We are just
giving another option to customers who move house. We know that the cost
of moving house is a barrier and we've come up with something to try and
help."


--
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On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:38:51 +0100, Peter M <us-mail@rocketmail.com> wrote:

Just to be absolutely clear on this matter, if you have a Broadband service
from PlusNet, decide to agree to stay within them for a year, thus paying £50
+ VAT connection fee, but not taking their modem "offer", I assume you may
migrate to another ISP after one year without paying any "leaving" fees. Is
this true or false?

David Bradley

Thank you to the PlusNet support team for their quick response.

It is a refreshing honesty to see that they detail what the costs are,
rather than saying 'free' without qualifying it. However, a number of
other ISPs do seem to offer 12 month contracts and free modem setup
without the requirement to pay back anything if they cancel after 12
months. For example, Demon, Virgin.net, Eclipse etc..

Geoff

On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:53:26 +0100, someone purporting to be PlusNet
Support Team <support@plus.net_> wrote:

If you cancel within the first year, PlusNet will demand £58.75 for the
activation. For every year you stay they will reduce that by £11.75.

If you also choose to take a modem as part of the offer there will be an
additional cancellation fee of £25 in the first year and this will reduce
by £5 for each year that you stay.

I believe this will leave a very nasty taste in the mouths of some PlusNet
customers and make it less likely they will ever return.

john

"JohnT" <spam@ukt.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
newstd69111q8hmkqmc8m81ppo9vgq42lmp38@4ax.com...
I'd say it'll put a lot of 'potential' customers off too.
It's put me off em altogether.

On 24 May 2005 13:53, PlusNet Support Team <support@plus.net_> wrote:

It's the 'Free' word which causes this to be another black mark against
Plus.Net. I saw mention of the new low prices and suggested there be a
news item on one of the websites, but it resulted in a comment from the
person I contacted that because of the 'hidden' nature of the deferred
charges, they would not include an item (I think it was something to
do with waiving charges for someone keeping their account but moving
home... another ISP offers to pay the activation fee, and I saw that
Plus.Net had [perhaps the same day as I saw the other news item] plans
to offer customers the same type of incentive to stay, but of course in
the case of someone moving, they may choose to switch to another ISP who
offers free activation and has no further fees after the first 12 months!

I did try to locate the response from the news editor, but cannot find it
as I probably just deleted it as a 'lost cause'. Seems like Plus.Net is
falling into a public relations black hole with what could at best be a
series of 'poor communications'... I won't write what the worst could
be as a way of describing things... Peter Morgan.


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On 24 May 2005 15:18, David Bradley <trolley@spamless.co.uk> wrote:

True. If you pay the other 11.75 you could leave after a month's notice, as
they also have an option for monthly contract (70.50 instead of 58.75).


--
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On the Tue, 24 May 2005 15:50:01 +0100, =?iso-8859-1?B?R/jxevhs4w==?= <T
o p @ S e c r e t . c o m> uttered forth the following...

"Sean" <snm_uk@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cfd5a798938e5ca989edd@News.Individual.NE T...
Not at all...
It's just my opinion.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:50:01 +0100, Gøñzølã <T o p @ S e c r e t . c o
m> wrote:

Pay the bloody activation fee then.

"Richard Sobey" <spam@rasobey.co.uk> wrote in message
news:lti691paclbmsepp099lql5a6lq7ne47oe@4ax.com...
Shut up idjut.

On 24 May 2005 16:40, Patrick Nethercot (ngs) wrote:

Best bought separately, I'd say.

Um... There are capped and uncapped services from 14.99 to 21.99 a month.
I'd class 'basic ADSL' as a Broadband Plus account, which in the case of
staying a year, would cost (in fees to Plus.Net)...

annual or ( annual ( monthly
monthly contract ) contract )

activation nil 58.75 70.50

monthly fee 14.99 14.99 14.99

migrate away 58.75 nil nil

at end of 12 months (ie one year and one day after start)

migrate away 47.00 (after 2 years, 1 day 35.25 etc)

If he recommends others join Plus.Net his monthly fees could be
reduced, another incentive to stay so long as service meets needs.


--
Plus.Net <http://tinyurl.com/5jpa4>
I recommend them and save some cash.

With a guarantee allowing new users to migrate if they're unhappy!

Sean <snm_uk@coldmail.com> wrote:
: On the Tue, 24 May 2005 15:50:01 +0100, =?iso-8859-1?B?R/jxevhs4w==?= <T
: o p @ S e c r e t . c o m> uttered forth the following...
: >
: > I'd say it'll put a lot of 'potential' customers off too.
: > It's put me off em altogether.
: >
: >
: Why because you expect things for free?

Well it's put me off as well!

ISPs generally either CHARGE the Connection or ABSORB the costs themselves.
Only PlusNet do neither!

It is also not clear what happens if one transfer in from another ISP and
THEN leaves....I presume this charge would not then apply (but I did not
find this in the T&Cs)

Gøñzølã wrote:
I agree with Richard - PlusNet publish their T&C's for all to read. I
have no sympathy with people who fail to read the terms before
committing themselves. If those terms seem unreasonable there are
dozens of other ISP's to choose from.

On the Tue, 24 May 2005 15:58:57 +0000 (UTC), Brian McIlwrath uttered
forth the following...
just find other ways of charging you for it.

On 24 May 2005 17:40, Patrick Nethercot wrote:

There are several low-cost units available from firms like Dabs.com and
Ebuyer.com, and I'd suggest spending more than a tenner on network card
is unlikely to get you much more (than a 'known' manufacturer name). Be
sure to get a PCI card if that's what his has... I have had to dig for
ISA cards in the past, for older kit :-)

Expect to pay from 25 to 50 quid for a 1-port or 4-port router but with
items at the lower end, I'd suggest buying from Dabs over Ebuyer, based
on past use... (I think there have been a few more negative reports on
Ebuyer than on Dabs... not searched any 'consumer' type newsgroups/web
sites so just based on vague thoughts, sorry). Peter Morgan.


--
Plus.Net <http://tinyurl.com/5jpa4>
I recommend them and save some cash.

With a guarantee allowing new users to migrate if they're unhappy!

On Tue, 24 May 2005 16:13:38 +0100, Peter M <us-mail@rocketmail.com> wrote:

Peter,

My daughter wants to move from dialup to broadband. She doesn't have a lot of
spare cash to throw around. She's not too demanding on her use of the internet
- email, a bit of surfing, and her daughter on MSN chat. So I suggest the
cheapest PlusNet deal and she finds it attractive because she has no setup costs
(which suits her tight cashflow) and sticking with them for five years doesn't
seem to be a major problem. Other providers either have a setup/equipment
costs, or absorb these costs and have a higher monthly payment scheme.

Whether you call PlusNet's offer a free setup, or a deferred charge included in
their low cost monthly rental, then it is still a good deal to her - she's not
interested in semantics.

There are no poor communications on Plusnet's side regarding this 'free' offer.
There are several obvious links on their web site to the page describing their
offer in detail and they do not hide the longer term consequences of the offer.

It may not be an attractive offer to some members of these newsgroups since it
would limit their ability to flit from pillar to post in their attempts to get
to the greener grass. But I bet that your average punter would probably think
it quite a good deal.

Jim.

On 24 May 2005 15:58 UTC, Brian McIlwrath wrote:

Well, they offer both options, actually, if you care to check. However, if
they are 'absorbing' the cost, unlike the majority of ISPs, they're doing a
60 month rather than 12 month term, before you pay 'nothing'. I guess that
is one factor in offering a 2000 kbps connection for only 14.99 a month for
customers... (obviously they do have other accounts, costing more, but then
again how many other ISPs offer 'rock bottom' pricing for always on without
quotas on how much you download ?)

Then you must have not been looking too hard. Going to their site and then
two clicks (one on a graphic about 'paying your existing ISP too much' that
got me to a second page, and then their 'Terms and conditions apply' link,
got me to one (I'll be happy to go back again!) which had the text saying

"Terms and Conditions of ‘Free Moving Offer’

1. This offer applies only if you decide to move your service.
2. You will not have to pay a moving fee for transferring your service
to PlusNet if you complete a 12-month minimum period. This will be
measured from the date your move is successfully completed.
3. If you cancel your service before the end of the 12-month minimum
period, a moving fee of £14.99 (inc. VAT) will apply, in addition
to any other fees that may be payable.
4. We reserve the right to terminate the offer.
5. All of our standard Terms & Conditions apply, and take precedence
over these terms where there may be a conflict.
6. This offer does not affect your statutory rights.

Any changes to this offer will normally be announced through the
Announcements section of the website."

One thing which this change does affect is that in the recent past their
offer of free migration to their service and their Guarantee (allowing a
user to migrate away, subject to Plus.Net paying a maximum of 12.99 that
would go to the new ISP) (ie "free move in, free move out") seems now to
have been replaced with the user having to pay a moving fee (item 3 from
the list above). I know from using Plus.Net that many would perhaps not
be moving on straight away, but I think paying them a fee to start is in
the customer's better interest, as you will then be in a position to get
a monthly contract (and so not be tied for 12 months, just in case there
is an alternative service available, or you might want to move home etc.


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