Hi,

Today I have had a wiring fault. I have corrected it but I am puzzled by
it and would like to learn what has happened in case it ever happens again.

Basically, my router kept dropping DSL every few seconds. I checked with
the test socket and got a solid connection. I went to the first slave
socket and disconnected any extensions from there. No good. I took the
faceplate off and disconnected the external bell that runs from there.
Much better, but not perfect. Disconnects were now happening every one
or two minutes. I disconnected the other three wires (B/W, O/W, and W/B)
and the connection was solid. I tried connecting the B/W and W/B only,
leaving the ringing wire disconnected. This worked. The DSL connection
is solid and all my 'phones still ring. Everything now works so I put
everything back together.

It seems to me that the main problem was the external bell and that
needs replacing. It also seems that there is a problem somewhere on the
ringing circuit which I have bypassed by disconnecting the wire.
However, there was not a problem before the external bell failed. What
could have happened, please? Could the bell have caused a problem
elsewhere? Other than replacing the external bell, should I be doing
anything else?

--
Howard Neil

"Howard Neil" <hneil@REMOVETOREPLY.co.uk> wrote in message
news:idWdnR3fUeBHgYPVnZ2dnUVZ8q-rnZ2d@plusnet...

You don't tell us about the ADSL filtering.
Ideally you should have a single filter at the NTE5 or
a filtered faceplate. All the phones and the bell should
be wired to the POTS side of this filter.
Are you filtering as above, at a single point, or are you using
multiple filters at the individual extension sockets?
From what you say it doesn't sound as if the bell was
filtered at all; it is essential that it is.
What makes you think the bell is faulty, has it stopped making a noise?

--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

On Sun, 04 May 2008 21:30:15 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:

AFAIR there has long been an issue with the bell wire unbalancing the
local circuit and inducing noise. Openreach have now introduced an NTE5
faceplate with a choke on the bell circuit to overcome this. How
successful it is I don't know, but I bet Kraftee does. This may be
helpful: www.buzzhost.co.uk/nte5.php

Graham. wrote:

I have two filters; one from the master socket to the modem (this worked
fine when plugged into the test socket) and one from the slave socket.
The fault occurred even with this second filter out of the socket so was
not to blame.

That sounds a very good point. No, it was not filtered but wired
directly into the slave socket. This throws up other questions:

1. Why did it work (as it has done for nearly 2 years) when wired like that?

2. What is the best way to take the bell wire to the filtered side of
the circuit? Attach the wires to a BT plug?

I don't know. I am basing this on the difference it made to the fault.
Disconnected, the fault was considerable better. Perhaps I should try it
filtered. The only problem there is that I have now disconnected the
orange ringing wire. Will the bell work across B/W and W/B? I always
thought that one side needed to be connected to the ringing circuit.


--
Howard Neil

Christian wrote:

Thanks for that. It looks very interesting. Being a master socket that
might present me with other difficulties. I wonder if BT keep records as
to type of equipment installed?


--
Howard Neil

On Mon, 5 May 2008 09:36:03 UTC, Howard Neil
<hneil@REMOVETOREPLY.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

You don't need the ring wire. Most modern phones work just on A & B.
And even if they don't, an ADSL filter will re-generate the ring
signal anyway.
--
Regards
Dave Saville

NB Remove nospam. for good email address

Dave Saville wrote:
Interesting. I always thought that an external bell required greater
power (supplied by the ring wire). It is clearly time for experimentation.



--
Howard Neil

On Mon, 05 May 2008 10:42:13 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:

Not a problem. Glad it was useful in part.

BT used to keep records of the installation and socket type. Sometimes it
is still stuck in the customer rental details, but all that kind of thing
is largely ignored. With the fragmentation of it all the left hand has a
problem knowing what the right hand is meant to be doing in any case.

If your 'other difficulties' would be resolved by a change from a master
socket to an NTE, then it may be worth mentioning it so you can get the
best advice from the good people in here.

I found that an old trembler solenoid extension bell severely
degraded my speed.
By experimenting I've found that too low an impedence
across the POTs side affects the ADSL side, try
shorting out the POT's side and ADSL stops.
Long extension leads also pick up noise, bearing
in mind that ADSL is low level, high frequency,
signals. You can't alter the line between you
and the exchange, you can only do everything
possible to avoid degrading your S/N ratio.

ato_zee@hotmail.com wrote:

Funnily enough, this is an old trembler solenoid bell and speeds seem
better than normal today. Perhaps I should manage without it. I do have
a DECT 'phone so can cope without it.

--
Howard Neil

Christian wrote:

Actually, I was referring to the legal difficulties of changing the
master socket myself. :-)

I already have an NTE but don't know if it has the new choke. I suspect not.

--
Howard Neil

Howard Neil wrote:
The external bell is almost certainly connected via a filter as is required
for ADSL to work properly.

Peter Crosland

On Mon, 05 May 2008 11:03:57 +0100,it is alleged that Howard Neil
<hneil@REMOVETOREPLY.co.uk> spake thusly in uk.telecom.broadband:

[snip]
The bell needs the ring wire for the sole reason that it needs the
capacitor to block the DC. If it was connected directly across A and
B, it would short out the line circuit, causing a permanent busy on
the line, and definitely showing as a PG fault at the exchange. The
bell should work fine on the output side of the master socket,
connected between 3 and 5 (socket numbers, not plug numbers, usually
the white and blue wires in a line cord).

This would allow you to use a main filter for the whole installation.
A second filter for the bell would also work (although it may lower
the volume slightly due to the filter's inductance, I use this setup,
and it works fine, 4.2 cable miles from the exchange, and I sync at
around 4Mbit)

The ring wire was needeed when we had pulse dialling phones so that
one phone could 'shunt' the bell on the others to prevent bell tinkle
(also known as bell tap) on other phones when dialling. These days
with touchtone phones it's not necessary to do so.

--
_
( ) ASCII ribbon campaign against html e-mail
X and usenet posts
/ \

"Peter Crosland" <g6jns@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:46ednTrP3uYnn4LVRVnyjgA@plusnet...
Possibly not though if it's an old BT hard-wired one that's been there for
donkeys' years.
I had an external 4" mag bell with on-off switch on my line when I moved
here.
I got cordless phones and didn't need the bell any more, so I removed it and
its wiring and switch.

George

Chip wrote:
Thanks for that explanation. I have now decided to leave the bell
disconnected but all knowledge is most welcome.

--
Howard Neil

George Weston wrote:
Mine is also an old BT hard wired bell. Like you, I have now decided to
leave it disconnected (I am now getting faster internet speeds and I
also have DECT). If it has a filter, I don't know where it is hidden but
it does rather puzzle me as to why it has work all this time.

--
Howard Neil

Peter Crosland wrote:
Of course I should have said it probably does not have a filter.

Peter Crosland

On Mon, 05 May 2008 11:54:25 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:

<snip>
If you *READ* the information on the link I sent you, you will be able to
work that out in a moment. Hint - Top of the page, right hand side ;-)

www.buzzhost.co.uk/nte5.php

Christian wrote:
Yes, sorry about being thick. When I first read it I thought it was
showing the inside of the box. I have now read it properly and checked
behind my own face plate. I do not have the filter. It is also now
obvious that, as I don't need to open up the actual master socket, my
concerns are annulled and I will set about obtaining one of these new
faceplates.

--
Howard Neil

Peter Crosland wrote:
No it doesn't seem to have one. I am now very puzzled why it worked before.


--
Howard Neil