When it comes to understanding how the internet works, I am a relative
novice.

Why should I have to purchase, install and learn how to use anti-spam,
anti-virus, anti-spyware and other anti-software, when service
providers should be able to do it more efficiently than I can before
the rubbish ever reaches me?
----
Reg.

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dsuvuk$3sn$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Have you tried your ISP's website, email section?
I use the free Wanadoo anti-spam facility and it does a pretty good job.
(Apart from enabling the anti-spam feature, I don't use the Wanadoo website
for emails.)

Perhaps your real question is why the financing/costing model used by the
Internet allows the sending of millions of spam messages at apparently no
cost to the perpetrators.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

For all my moaning BT Yahoo filtration web side is very good. < 0.5% of Spam
gets through and IME <0.1% virus infected (harder to work out).

Norton on my PC catches what little gets through apart from three easily
recognised cases in the last two years.

"Malcolm Stewart" <malcolm_stewart@megalith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:dsv37v$amu$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...

Reg Edwards wrote:
Most of it you don't nead to _purchase_, there are many packages that are
free t o download. How do you expect your ISP to monitor every site you
visit and stop you downloading something you may not want?
--
Adrian A

In article <dsuvuk$3sn$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

Reg - you sometimes give the impression that you think that the Internet
was "built" by someone - perhaps by the ISPs. It wasn't. It came into
being[1], and it evolved - like the planet you're living on. The ISPs
have simply made a major contribution as to _how_ it is evolving, but
other major contributors include commerce, the porn industry, and geeks
the world over.

ISPs can offer (or even claim) to control spam, but they cannot succeed
completely. Our mail hubs, at this University, reject 80% (I'll say
that again: 80%) of the spam which is directed at our site: millions of
message per month (or was it per week - I forget). But we cannot reject
it all, partly because we can never second-guess spammers' new tricks,
and partly because -- and this is the bit that interests you -- we
cannot know that a message about (say) Viagra is not a bona fide message
exchanged between two medical researchers. Or in your case perhaps, how
could your ISP tell if a message from a holiday company was just spam,
or a bona fide reply to your enquiry?

The above is simplified. We spend huge resources on anti-spam measures,
week in, week out. Some of it is bigger computers, most of it is staff
resource, deploying highly sophisticated software.

The best thing you can do to avoid spam is to use an email pseudonym (as
you see many of your fellow news users doing) (how you do that depends
on the software you're using to read Usenet News), or to keep another
email account which you use in public forums.

Why? because one of the oldest ways that spammers use to harvest email
addresses is to trawl Usenet news looking for them.

Cheers
John Law, Computing Service,
University of Newcastle (but see my email address)

[1] It came into being because the US DoD decided to link their networks
with research networks, which decided to link to each other across
countries and continents. Then the Web was invented; then good old
Capitalism saw how it could use the web... spammers are just a branch of
capitalism, mate.

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dsuvuk$3sn$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Because if they did do that, you'd turn around and complain that everything
you were doing was being watched and argue something along the lines of
"dont they think im intelligent enough to do this on my own".

good post,

I think it should be pointed out that "the spam" itself is not really
problem, its the spammers, since the internet is a global resource (its
greatest strength and weakness) its a global social problem. Possibly a
good reason for the UN to take control of the internet ?.

--
Eps

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:31:48 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

ISP's that use Brightmail get rid of a huge amount of spam. The few
that remain are easy to handle by the client. Viruses can be easily
restricted by limiting the size of downloaded messages.

--
Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software

EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.
http://www.easynn.com

Reg Edwards wrote:
Because by taking the time to learn, you will be better able to
recognise and avoid security risks.

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in
message
news:dsuvuk$3sn$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com
You *don't* have to, but then some of us like to be in control of our own
systems and not rely on other people doing the job properly (which IMHO
they rarely do).

You want your ISP to filter your mail, fine, but don't come complaining
when they (accidentally) delete some valid mail that just happens to match
their spam filter settings.

Ivor

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dsuvuk$3sn$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...


The Internet began in the USA. It was about freedom of information, a way to
express without censure and free from national boundaries and laws. It was
also in the hands of dedicated people who where of honest intent. Today, we
still have the Internet as was, but now exploited by not so honourable
people or of honest intent. But we still have, in the main, an Internet that
is still free from national boundaries and laws.



In essence, that leaves you and me responsible for our own protection. Not
ideal, but it is a young and growing culture that will evolve. I think you
have done well, keep it up, keep posting. You do count.



John DH

We all were once - the knowledge required to get online vs the
knowledge required to do it safely is like comparing a 13yr old car
thief to someone who has just passed their driving test.

I know who i`d rather be in a car with...

Most - if not all - of what you need to help keep you safe online is
available for free. You find that some of the "paid solutions" have a
prettier icon or two to click on, but essentially do the same job as a
free one.

I`ve tried to put my experiences of computer security in plain english
at my site at http://www.coreutilities.co.uk

At the risk of inducing the wrath of the regulars here, i`ll paste one
part of my site below - the third paragraph is one you should really
make note of !

.........

Spyware can make your system slow and unresponsive, and force it to do
things you don't want it to do, like take you to certain websites when
you first open Internet Explorer (they could be porn, gambling, or a
search engine they get paid for making people use).

Quite often, you may find icons on your desktop you didn't put there
and can't delete (they reappear when you reboot), or sites added to
your favourites that you really don't want to know about.

Some spyware can force your computer to dial premium rate phone
numbers, and others can detect every key you press, so if you logged
into your bank account online, they'd have all the information they
needed to empty your account (yes, it really is that serious).

The worst case of spyware I ever saw made a computer take over 6 hours
to boot up, and each mouse click took 15 minutes to register. Gator
was the program responsible...

20th Nov 2004 - I came across an interesting site that specifically
set out to see how badly a PC could be infested by spyware by visiting
just ONE WEBSITE. You can see the results here, but it ain't pretty !
(hint: 16+ unwanted programs) http://www.benedelman.org/news/111804-
1.html

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:31:48 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

don't want my ISP controlling it. I realise that this can give my ISP
problems, but why should I not receive email from a friend who uses an
ISP blocked by spamhaus?

regards

nemo2

If it is so essential, why isn't anti-virus, anti-spyware and other
anti-software issued free, incorporated in the basic internet-using
software?
----
Reg.

Actually it began with the US Gov needing a secure comms system for use
after a nuclear attack.And then evolved into what it is today.

Agree with that.

Reg Edwards wrote:

Hmmm, quite "what" "basic internet-using software" do you mean, Reg ?

The "common ground" only offers composition of TCP/IP data, so any
system can send/receive data, to interact with others.

You seem to forget that there are many different systems, from Apple
iMac to MS-DOS, Windows, Linux, Unix, etc, etc, so a single package
is rather difficult to produce, and anyway, who would pay for it?

Reg Edwards wrote:
There are many anti-virus, anti-spyware programs available for free. Why
restrict peoples choice by incorperating one and excluding others? It's up
to each user to decide what's the best solution for them after doing some
research.
--
Adrian A

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:45:24 -0000, "John DH" <s@s.com> wrote:

[snip]

Rubbish it was the UK !!!!

In article <qdr9v19qea9lrnffa4u8c4cvr2g5i51ek0@4ax.com>, David Bradley
<trolley@spamless.co.uk> writes
The business of an ISP is to provide you access to the internet via
their equipment. That is what you pay for. They may bundle other
services for your money, like NG access, free web space, spam filtering,
etc.

You did not buy your PC/Mac from the ISP, so protection of that machine
is your responsibility.

Quite frankly, any PC/Mac (mainly PC) owner that does not run software
to deal with the problems you outlined are fools.

There is plenty of advice in newspapers, on the internet, etc, on the
results of not running this software that any owner cannot claim "I did
not know".

This argument is as weak, and the same, as smokers employ when they try
and sue tobacco firms.

--
Hugh Janus Constipation is the thief of time, but diaorrehia waits
for no man!!

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 19:17:07 +0000, in uk.telecom.broadband , Silk
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

Its often paradoxically actually easier for individuals than for an
ISP. Sure, macro-spam and viruses can be filtered. But one person's
spam is another's requested marketing mailshot. I've had mail from
security advisories blocked due to "inappropriate content" ie it
mentioned the latest virus, mail from vendors blocked due to SHOUTING
or too many images etc etc. Getting all binaries blocked would prevent
your pals emailing you neat screensavers or holiday pictures. And so
on.
Mark McIntyre
--