"George Weston" <geoweston@NOSPAMgooglemail.com> wrote in message
news:5ssvfrF1ana63U1@mid.individual.net...
you may not have heard of it, but "redstripe" is the best, many brands will
leave you in an earthly paradise after your death, but redstripe will give
you wings so you can go bother the angels!

national treasure wrote:
(the usual religious claptrap)

Will you idiots please stop debating religion with this fool? This is
not the place, and you're merely giving him air.

Sure now, and tell that to West Belfast.

Ya mean like christians in Lebanon are busy killing each other /and/ the
'other teams'?

Remarks like that have caused more, and bloodier, wars than any other
event in history.

Oh good, racism too.

--
Mark McIntyre

CLC FAQ <http://c-faq.com/>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

"Mark McIntyre" <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:13mja7aipgahgcb@corp.supernews.com...
sadly the place for this kind of debate is alt.athiesm, which is full of
comments on the lines of 'i know god exists and youre all going to hell, so
there'.
plus is makes a change to the usual 'i'm thinking of migrating to
talk-talk/pipex/tiscali etc, what do you think?

"The Natural Philosopher" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:1198067555.59474.0@demeter.uk.clara.net...

I don't believe for one moment that you are stupid enough not to fully
understand that the 'life' I am referring to is the eternal life of the
conscious soul - which, in fact, is the *real* life for all of us since the
life of the body is breathtakingly transient.

The things you see around you, your computer, your keyboard, your house,
your car - these are mere props in the deceitful illusion of 'life'. They
are not yours - you cannot take them with you beyond the grave. One day (if
the world manages to stagger on for a while longer) someone else will 'own'
your house, look out of 'your' window, tend 'your' garden, They will have
acquired it because you will have been compelled to leave it behind at the
edge of the grave.

So, what will you enter eternity with? Your sin?, or the forgiveness of
God? *That* is the choice we are talking about.
If you die with your sins unforgiven you*will* spend eternity in Hell - and
if you had the slightest conception of what Hell is like you would already
be trembling, for it is a place greatly to be feared.

You say that Christianity is a 'child-like' dependence? - ABSOLUTELY!! I
need a Father to care for me, I need a Saviour to forgive me, I need God,
and I need Jesus Christ!

Words are cheap - who was more acerbicly contemptuous of Christianity than
Voltaire? Yet that cultured doyen of the 'reasoning classes' died calling
out in fear at the things he glimpsed before the darkness claimed him.

In view of this, I have to say that I care absolutely NOTHING for your
so-called 'wisdom', your 'rationalisation', your jibes, your contempt, or
even your indifference - *I* don't want to die with my sins upon me. If you
choose to - well, you have been granted the liberty of that choice.

Jesus is a faithful master, btw - I will not die of cancer, I will not rot
away my final years in a state of Altzheimers - these are terrors reserved
for those who don't need Him, or want Him. He is the good shepherd - and
I'd rather be one of His sheep than take my place at the staring window as I
wait for the nursing staff to kill me with medication! When I look at
life without Jesus it seems rather a perilous road to me! - and, frankly,
I'm amazed that anyone would want to walk it.

I think that some of the most wonderful words ever written were from Paul -
"I have fought the good fight, I have run the race, I have finished the
course. Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteouness" The
joyful statement of a man nearing the end of a hard and difficult life spent
serving his Lord, who knew beyond the slightest possibility of doubt that he
would soon be going home, all former toils and cares forgotten.

*That* is only thing that counts - honestly.

You're probably not familiar with Bunyan's 'Pilgim's Progress' - an
allegorical tale of a man who realised that he was living in city that was
scheduled for destruction.

He resolved to set out for the celestial city where he would be safe - and
tried to persuade his wife and family to accompany him in order that they
too might escape the coming catastrophe. They, however, concluded that he
was quite mad - and tried to forcibly restrain him from making his journey.

Christian, however (for such was his name) struggled free and ran down the
road as fast as he could (fingers in his ears to block out their entreaties)
shouting out 'Life!, Life - eternal Life!"

I know that you are quite able to understand the metaphor - and, since you
set such great store by 'rationality', is it not more rational to seek
eternal life, rather than eternal death?

You don't fear death? - Nah, you must think that I came to the UK sitting on
a crate of Fyffes!

"national treasure" <laughing@thefrogs.com> wrote in message
news:5stt5jF1b9uqlU1@mid.individual.net...
i do understand what you're saying, but i feel you are deluded

and?

i will enter eternity with a man shaped bag of worm food, but as i will be
dead it won't matter

whereas i take full responsibility for my life

so?

good for you! luckily i don't seem to have any sins, if you'd seen my
neighbopur's wife you'd understand why i don't covert her.

christians do get cancer, and altzheimers, and everything else, they are as
likely to die in pain as the rest of us.

my athiesm gives me a reason for living, your faith gives you a reason for
dying.

" There's a guy works down the chip shop swears he's Elvis
But he's a liar and I'm not sure about you" - K MacColl

i miss the point. i have'nt read bunyan, but i have read Homer and Ovid, so
should i believe in the classical greek gods?

i have concerns about dying, i would prefer quick and painless, which no one
can promise, not even your god, but that is where my fear begins and ends.
once dead i cease to exists, what's to fear?
i wish you all the best in your faith, i'm sure you live a good life, and
are kind and courteous to others (as i do/am). i do feel that you are
deluded, but your post here suggest that you may have some education behind
you, sadly free thinking was not part of the syllabus. i think many that
have posted here started life with the same views as yourself, but once they
were able to think for themselves their beliefs changed, i also no longer
believe in santa.

national treasure wrote:
True..

Neither.

'you' won't enter it will you?' Even accosrong to your ridiculous model.

Even you will asubscribe to the theory that its not 'you' but 'your
soul' that does the enetring.

So, is a soul sinful? What does that MEAN? Its patently obvious you
haven't really thought about it: You just take it all on trust.




That's *your* problem, not *mine*.
And there is your mistake. You cannot conceive of anyone other than
yourself.

Its called 'self centredness' or 'egostism'



Well if you don't care, piss off then. I can see your innate selfishness
shining through.



yeah, total wanker was paul. Smug, self satisfied and self righteous.


More fool him then. Paul essentially destroyed the Gospel message. And
replaced it with a Roman political system of mind control. If I were
Jesus, and found him knocking on the pearly gates, I'd kick him in the
balls frankly.



It does for YOU.


Indeed, but are you? I think not.


Depends on how much you cling to life really.

Eterenal death sounds quite peaceful.


No, I don't fear death, and yes, I suspect you probably did.