I have a laptop that I have not been using much since I got it 3 months
ago but now I have need to use it. Without the power adapter plugged
in, it will not power up at all. If I do plug in the power I don't get
an LED or anything. If I leave it plugged in a long time (say greater
than an hour). It seems to sprinng back to life. I let it recharge (I
think) by leaving it plugged in for several hours. I then unplugged
the adapter and I was able to work on it for at least 2 hours before it
finally ran out of juice. I then plugged in overnight to recharge (LED
went from flashing red then later to a continuous green after an hour
or so). Next morning I went to power up and nothing again (No LED no
nothing). I will leave plugged in again to see if recharging.

System clock/BIOS settings seem fine.

Is battery dead or just needed several cycles of recharging?

You generally should not leave the battery in a laptop that is either:

A. Not being used at all for long periods (weeks at a time)

OR

B. Being used on AC power, continuously plugged into the wall

You may have destroyed your battery, and these batteries are incredibly
expensive (typically over $200). If the laptop is only 3 months old, it
MIGHT be covered by either the standard or an extended warranty
(probably not, but worth a call). Also, you might be able to get it to
take a charge by working with it and trying to cycle it a few times.


dpdoughe@allvantage.com wrote:

I can understand not leaving it in for long periods of time (doesn't
that just slowly drain the battery -- like leaving your car battery
hooked up for long periods). But I would think that laptops were
designed to by-pass the battery if plugged into AC (once recharged
say). Am I really supposed to be popping the battery in and out all
the time? I will if that's what I'm supposed to do but it just doesn't
seem very nice design.

dpdoughe@allvantage.com wrote:

news-groups. Owner of Thinkpads will tell you, I for one, that its smart
charging utility prevents the battery from being charged when it does
not to be. Others, and I for one again, will tell you that a laptop is
supposed to be mobile, hence the battery. Otherwise, buy a laptop
without battery (if you can) and get a UPS instead. Others will tell you
(I for one, end of game) that a battery's worst ennemy is heat. Well
designed laptops are not supposed to be heaters but some are.

Whatever you do, it looks like you will end up sooner rather than later
with a brick if you do not replace the battery. If you travel a lot and
need the best mileage, consider replacing the battery every year and
year and a half.

At the end of the day, the constraints of removing the battery from the
laptop outweight IMHO the extra battery life you are supposed to get,
except for laptops that generate a lot of heat.

--
John Doue

So that brings up a question. Is it impossible to power the laptop
with a dead battery? If so, is there some UPS battery-shaped thingy to
stick in there? I guess that's a silly question. Are they just trying
to sell batteries?

dpdoughe@allvantage.com wrote:
Just remove the battery, and the laptop should power up and work just
fine on the AC adapter.

I know with an earlier thinkpad I had,with an NIMH battery in it.. I killed
the battery by letting it stay plugged in all the time with the battery
in... Not a smart charger in that consumer level laptop.

My T40 business class laptop, with Lithium Ion battery technology in it
doesn't charge the battery after it's full, so as long as you don't let the
fully charged battery sit in the heat, it'll be fine... If you want to
maximize the life of this battery, it's recommended that you discharge it to
60%ish and store in a cool place... but they die after a couple 3 years
anyways...

Al...

<dpdoughe@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:1132067546.107492.48820@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...

Theory and what the laptop makers will say to the contrary aside, there
is overwhelming real-world evidence that leaving the battery in a laptop
will destory a battery that could last a decade in 6 to 24 months. It's
not clear if the major culprit is overcharging or heat, but it's very
clear that it's not a good idea.


dpdoughe@allvantage.com wrote:

I'm not aware of any modern laptops that won't run without a battery.


dpdoughe@allvantage.com wrote:

About 2 years ago there was a major thread here on this topic that went
on for 6 months, thousands of posts. The evidence was overwhelming that
leaving batteries in laptops running constantly off AC destroyed
batteries. It wasn't universal, and some models seemed to be exempt,
but I'd say that 70% to 80% of the posts from people with actual real
world experience reflected this reality.

Some people want to take a "so what" attitude for the convenience ....
ok, if it kills the battery, I'll buy a new battery. But the fact is
that the good 8 to 16 cell lithium ion batteries are over $200.
Conversely, an APC 350VA UPS is $30.

Hey, it's your money, do whatever you want. But I repeat that the
overwhelming experience of people who leave their batteries in laptops
that run on AC is that the battery is destroyed in 6 to 24 months, when
a properly cared for lithium ion battery can last 10 years (I have a
couple dozen 1995 and 1996 date code Toshiba PA-2487's (batteries) that
are still quite good here)(I service laptops).


Alan Adrian wrote:

dpdoughe@allvantage.com wrote:
Batteries, all batteries, all types, are disposable. If you look at
your warranty, you will find that the battery is typically excluded from
replacement after 90 days.

There are other downsides to laptops that are not usually considered:
the LCD backlight and inverter are high maintenance. Hard drives fail.
Keyboards fail.

Q

From Dells user manual for a Inspiron 6000.

"For optimal computer performance and to help preserve BIOS settings,
operate your Dell
portable computer with the main battery installed at all times. Use a
battery to run the computer
when it is not connected to an electrical outlet. One battery is supplied as
standard equipment in
the battery bay.
The AC adapter charges a completely discharged battery in approximately 2
hours with the
computer turned off. Charge time is longer with the computer turned on. You
can leave the battery in the
computer as long as you like. The battery's internal circuitry prevents the
battery from overcharging.
Remove the battery when you store your computer for an extended period of
time. A battery
discharges during prolonged storage. After a long storage period, recharge
the battery fully before
you use it."

--
MI
<dpdoughe@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:1132067546.107492.48820@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...

Thankyou Miss. Information,

BTW, I had Simplo 223-3S4000-S1P1 battery running in a LinuxCertified
LC2100 laptop
(http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lc2100.html). It was
essentially unused for about 3 months with the battery left in and
would not show any LED initially. Now, I've cycled the battery 3 times
now and it is working "fine" now. It will power the computer for more
that 2 hours (not timed exactly yet) when AC not plugged in.

The laptop does make screen darken when AC not plugged in so there is
some power saving "smart" stuff going on that I don't notice/see in my
HP Pavillion.

Maybe I don't need a new battery after all (knock on plastic...).

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:25:27 -0700, "Quaoar" <quaoar@tenthplanet.net>
wrote:
What do you do to "maintain" an LCD backlight and its inverter -
change the oil?
These parts will fail eventually, just like everything else, but
until they do you can leave them alone. Laptop backlights are rated
for 15,000 MTBF - about 7.5 years if you use the laptop display 8
hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks/year. By the time that happens, a
model 5 times faster (Moore's Law) will be available for a quarter
the money, but if you don't need to upgrade the parts are replaceable.
Personally, the only backlight I've ever replaced is on my IBM
701C, built in 1995, which saw regular use until a couple years ago
and still gets pulled out occasionally. I've yet to have to replace an
inverter on any laptop I've owned.
Hard drives and keyboards can fail on desktops as well as laptops,
so I don't think you can characterize that as a weakness of laptops
alone.
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black

"E Brown" <epbrown01@att.net> wrote in message
news:9k7nn15unl2s60mulrsug3uttg98fqdmku@4ax.com...
The point of my response to the OP is that there are no guarantees for
laptop parts, especially batteries, for which he referenced the original
comments.

Your comment on the mtbf for backlights might be on the mark but
backlights are noticeably dim at two years without exception. At three
years many have color shifted pink or yellow as well as further dimmed.
Failures not due to abuse are rare, but loss of visual quality certainly
is not. "Maintenance" is a poor word for me to have used.

As for IBM, they seem to have a good, if not necessarily justified,
reputation for reliability. In the absence of data, I will suggest that
most laptops, with a few notable exceptions, have much the same level of
reliability.

Q

"Miss Information" <myname@News.Indvidual.invalid> wrote in message
news:437acb08$0$27945$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
My understanding from reading is that a Li-Ion battery should be used as a battery
once in while, perhaps at least once/month. Leaving it on charge all the time does
shorten its life. I believe I read this on the Apple website.

Adam

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:56:32 -0700, "Quaoar" <quaoar@tenthplanet.net>
wrote:
IBM's reputation for reliability is a misnomer; they aren't more
reliable, they just have much better service and support. Sony's poor
reputation is due to the crappy service you get after you buy - the
problems aren't more frequent, but they aren't resolved properly or to
your satisfaction and so they stick with you more. I know some people
have had bad experiences with IBM's support as well, but far fewer
than other companies, from what I've seen.
epbrown
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black

In this instance, the manufacturer's advice has proven not to be
accurate in all regards. [Sure, the battery makes a good UPS, but if
that is the only issue, there are better solutions than a $200 battery.]


Miss Information wrote:

Most modern backlights are rated for far longer, up to 50,000 hours.

You can replace backlights without too much trouble on many (not all)
models. Digikey and Mouser both carry bare, unmounted FL tubes in
various sizes and they are relatively inexpensive (about $10 to $15).
When doing a replacement, cut the leads off the old lamp and use them on
the new lamp. The hardest part is figuring out how to access the lamp,
and on some LCD panels this is not only not easy, it may be impossible.


E Brown wrote:

I would disagree with that. Brightness does fall off with use, but not
(normally) with calendar time. I make a small business out of repairing
certain specific models of older laptops from the 1990's .... very few
of them are less than 6 years old. Some are dim, but some are as bright
as they were when new. What matters is not how old they are (calendar
time) but how long they were left on, e.g. for how many hours had the
backlight actually been turned on.


Quaoar wrote: