I asked this question about three months ago and at the time didn't get much
response so am hoping for better luck this time. I have visited many retail
outlets over the last three months in an attempt to learn about laptops but
am unable to believe a word any salesman tells me. What one bloke says is
the best is garbage to another salesman and they always seem to want to push
you towards one particular laptop they have for sale, doesn't matter what
question you ask, that laptop will do it so I desperately need your help. I
know that I want at least 80Gb hard drive and 2 * 512 Mb Ram but I am unable
to understand the processor and monitor terminology and this is where I need
your help. I want a 17" screen, what XGA, UXGA, WSXGA should I be looking
at. I want a powerful processor as I will be using the laptop for video
capture and editing and from my previous experience the rendering process is
extremely power and RAM hungry but I am confused by Celeron and 800FSB and
Centrino etc. Which one is more powerful. I do hope someone can shed some
light on the subject for me and appreciate your help.

Have you tried looking at reviews on:

www.cnet.com or
www.zdnet.com

or just plain Googling on the different aspects? I know that Centrino is a
better technology than Celeron. Look at reviews on the above sites for
laptops (notebooks) of the screen size you're looking for. I'm not too
knowledgeable as to laptops, but believe you would be better off with 1 GB
RAM module rather than 2 * 512 MB RAM modules. I've been looking
extensively myself for a laptop for my granddaughter for school and have
been able to learn quite a bit just by searching the Internet. Still no
expert but much better educated now. I'm still searching -- that's why I'm
on this NG.

I offer this limited response in the event you have no better luck than your
first time.

"Blondie" <bitemespammers@backatya.com> wrote in message
news:42bb557a$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

thanks for your response. I have tried googling different stuff but I just
don't understand all the terminology so was hoping that someone who did
could share their wisdom with me. I think 2*512 Mb RAM is better than 1*1Gb
RAM because DDR (Double Data Rate ) aspect of RAM doesn't work with only one
stick but I'm not sure about this
"Gene Hora" <ams34@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ycJue.65221$887.41017@tornado.socal.rr.com...

I've spent hours googling and reading reviews, and finally came across
www.laptoplogic.com. I think if you thrash around there and visit some of
the forums, you'll find some real help. I did.

Dick.

Blondie,

If you want a laptop that can handle video editing and processing you need a
Pentium 4 processor, at least the 3.0 Ghz version, with hyperthreading. As
for RAM, yes DDR RAM, if used on a system that handles Dual Channel Memory,
will be much faster. And yes, you would need to pair up the RAM sticks.
The classes of screens run from good to better to best. A screen with the
designation of WSXGA will have high resolution, on the order of 1280 x
1024, widescreen, for WSXGA. Here is the link to information about what
those letters mean when referring to screens.

http://www.gen-x-pc.com/lcd3.htm

A Celeron processor will not do what you want to do. As for FSB, which
stands for Front Side Bus, the faster, the better.

Good luck. Be prepared to spend about $2500 (US) for the machine you want.
Keep in mind that you can get an absolutely awesome desktop system, with a
19" LCD monitor, and surround sound speaker system for this kind of money.


"Blondie" <bitemespammers@backatya.com> wrote in message
news:42bb557a$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

"Blondie" <bitemespammers@backatya.com> wrote in message
news:42bb62c7$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Two sticks are required for dual channel DDR, while regular DDR needs only
one. I've yet to read a review or opinion that dual channel has much
benifit at today's speeds, especially in a laptop. I feel you'd do better
with at least 1 stick of 1gb RAM, allowing you to upgrade without loosing
money.

As for the screen, nobody can tell you the 'best' one. Go to the store,
find the prettiest screen, then write down what it is. Everybody's eyes are
different, so what looks good to you may look like crud to me.

A faster Centrino should allow you to do any video capture and editing. I
don't recommend a full blown Pentium 4 in a laptop, as there have been too
many problems with heat and such.

Your best bet is to buy a laptop from a place that will allow you to return
it in a couple weeks. That way you can see if it works for you.

Then again, for video capture and especially editing, I don't recommend a
laptop at all. You are going to pay through the nose for something that
will loose at least 1/3 of it's value in a very short time, and isn't too
upgradable. If you can get by with a portable computer that can't run off
batteries, you might want to consider an SFF (Small Form Factor) system,
which will be a whole lot cheaper and will last longer. www.shuttle.com

Pagan

Screen wise the best ones are the Sony's with their "X-Black" feature, but
you don't really get your moneys worth with a Vaio, hardware wise. Plus i
don't know anyone that has ever praised their battery life. In times gone by
i would say, Get a 17" powerbook, but thanks to "Macintel Gate" i can't
really advise people down that route anymore, but if you can afford to
change again in two to three years go for it.

Dell shift some good product, and their prices are reasonable.
Theres this company in the UK, they make some pretty impressive systems
http://www.rockdirect.com/index.html

Unfortunately beyond that i would say stick to the big boys, Dell, Toshiba,
Sony, HP etc. See what model you like the best, in person(especially
important for the screen). Then once you've settled go to their online store
and configure it to your spec. Plus stay away from shared graphics, get a
laptop with either a ATI or Nvidia Graphics solution
Heres my specs
(for battery life)

Intel {Centrino}Pentium M 745 (2.17Ghz)
1GB DDR 633(in dual Channel)
80GB 5400 RPM
DVD+/-RW
Widescreen 15.4"(WXGA or 1280*768)
Independant Graphics

(for power)
Intel Pentium 4 3.06GHz With HT
1GB DDR 633(in dual Channel)
60GB 7200RPM
DVD+/-RW
17"(SXGA or 1600*1200)
Independant Graphics

I hope that solved your problems a little, if in doubt just ask for more
help

"Blondie" <bitemespammers@backatya.com> wrote in message
news:42bb557a$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Blondie wrote:
the power you want will be quite expensive and given large memory,
intensive CPU usage, and big display all will reduce battery life. Big
laptops have big weight, even finding a case for 17 screen was a
struggle, only about 10% of the cases I like would hold it.

Therefore, several thoughts:
- go 64 bit, probably meaning Athlon64, fast now, will support Win64 and
64 bit versions of your video software.
- if you need to do on-site capture, get a camera, or a cheap laptop
just for capture, and do your editing on a desktop. I suspect the
overall cost will be similar and performance better.
- the big commercial animators and editors seem to be running Linux. I
would avoid getting a laptop which doesn't support it, it might be
important in your future.

And a question, what's your video input channel? Firewire? Still not on
every laptop, so don't forget it.

--
bill davidsen
SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com

Bill Davidsen wrote:

There also will be 32bit versions for the next couple of years, and very
likely much longer than every notebook bought today will be in use. Unlike
the crowd opinion, 64bit doesn't make Your software faster. Usually the
contrary is the case, 64bit programs often are more or less slower than
their 32bit counterparts....

Well, maybe You didn't notice that most of the "big commercial animators and
editors" usually do all their editing on a Windows machine and use Linux
systems mainly for rendering, something that's hardly a job for a notebook.

Linux certainly is a nice operating system but certainly not the first
choice for a video editing platform...

Benjamin

Blondie wrote:

Understandable. But be prepared to get different opinions here, too.

Well, I can't agree with another poster who recommend getting a
Pentium4-based notebook. Just don't do that! The Pentium4 CPU gets very(!)
hot and needs lots of power, and simply is misplaced in a notebook. Go for a
Pentium-M-based unit instead, often also (wrongly) referred to as
"Centrino". Centrino is just a marketing term for the combination of
Pentium-M CPU, intel chipset and intel WLAN. A notebook that doesn't have
intel WLAN is not allowed to carry the Centrino sticker. This doesn't mean
this notebook is worse, it's just no Centrino. But the really important part
is the Pentium-M anyways...

The Pentium-M, despite its low clock rate, is a very powerful CPU. A 1.7GHz
Pentium-M is around as fast as a Pentium4 2,8GHz, but consumes much less
power and also doesn't dissipate as much heat. A 1.7GHz Pentium-M is more
than fast enough for video editing...

The Celeron-M is a stripped-down Pentium-M which doesn't know Speedstep
(Powermanagement) and has a smaller cache. Better get a P-M instead...

I'd also recommend getting a brand name unit from Dell, IBM or HP instead of
a cheaper noname or OEM unit. Especially for a notebook You need a good
service...

BTW: if Your main concern is video editing I'd also have a look on an Apple
iBook or Powerbook as it's a great video editing platform and already comes
with the necessary software...

Benjamin

Blondie wrote:
VGA XGA SXGA UXGA WXGA WSXGA TFT LCD Monitor Info
http://www.gen-x-pc.com/lcd3.htm

In terms of performance on Intel processors, this the general hierarchy
(from lowest to highest):

Celeron, Centrino (aka Pentium-M), and Pentium 4

In terms of power efficiency this is the heirarchy (lowest to highest):

Pentium 4, Celeron, Centrino (Pentium M).

800FSB means "800 Mhz Front Side Bus", the faster the better generally.
Other choices are 400FSB and 533FSB, and 1033FSB. 400 is generally the
speed that older Centrino Pentium M's run at. 533 is the speed at which
newer Centrinos and Celerons run at, as well as older Pentium 4's.
800Mhz is generally where modern Pentium 4's run at. 1033 is not used
by any laptops, just desktop Pentium 4's.

In comp.sys.intel Kevin <webman6@hotmail.com> wrote:
Feh. If you need that much processor performance, buy a small form factor
desktop and a flat panel at that point. Such a machine as a laptop is good
only to use plugged in on a desk, as it will likely burn your lap and run
down batteries in no time.

For that matter, ram/HD matter more for most video editing purposes, and
laptop hard drives typically SUCK for video. The few 7200rpm laptop drives
help, but not that much.

I wouldn't buy a desktop P4 laptop, period. The P4-Ms were bad enough, and
topped out at 2.4ghz. Besides which, for most things, a 2ghz Dothan will
outperform a 3ghz P4.

A bit on crack, that. WXGA is fairly standard at 1280x768, not 1280x1024 and
not 1366x768 as the site says.

Manufacturers are NOT 100% standardized for anything except XGA (1024x768)
and VGA (640x480) but in GENERAL:

SXGA = 1280x1024 (sometimes x960)
SXGA+ = 1400x1050
(SXGA+ is Dell's term; resolution is quite common in any case.)
UXGA = 1600x1200
WXGA = 1280x720
(one of the more variable ones, though! I've seen that also used for
1024x576 on older subnotebooks, for example.)
WSXGA = 1680x1050 (may just be a Dell term)
WUXGA = 1920x1200 (may just be a Dell term)

Moral of this story? Always check the detailed specs on a given machine.
Don't go by acronyms.

Probably the best advice you've given.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/

"This is not a humorous signature."

In comp.sys.intel Veritech <avis.dalrymple@ntlworld.com> wrote:
X-Black and other high-contrast screens look good to some people and really
don't to others. To the original poster: go look at them in the store;
you'll either love them or go "why would I pay extra for that???"

Depends on which Vaio; for their time, the old 505s were great, and Sony has
consistently made some of the best subnotebooks.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/

"This is not a humorous signature."

In comp.sys.intel Bill Davidsen <davidsen@deathstar.prodigy.com> wrote:
Not on many that I've seen, actually; fortunately, an extra $50 (roughly)
will get you a nice cardbus firewire card.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/

"This is not a humorous signature."

Benjamin Gawert wrote:
Haven't been reading this group much have you ;-) I've been saying for a
year that there's no reason to dump an existing 32 bit, people whould
wait until they're going to buy a new one anyway and then get 64 bit as
a hedge against future software. But since this *is* a new system and a
fairly serious application, it makes sense to cover the bases.

Existing 32 bit programs don't run slower on 64 bit hardware in any
benchmark I've seen (or all that much faster in most cases, either). It
still makes sense to be able to choose.
Nor a reason to lock yourself out. I will agree that the Windows
software is easier to use because you don't need a whole raft of
packages, but you certainly can do editing on creation on Linux now, I
have no intention of lugging a desktop on vacation.
Not YOUR first choice, and why is that an argument to ignore the
capability? For all I know you might want Linux or OS/X on that laptop
in a few years. Covering all the bases doesn't have to cost more, you
just shop a little harder.

--
bill davidsen
SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com

Benjamin Gawert wrote:
Your conclusion is correct, for heavy floating point (encoding) you may
be a tad optimistic, I would have said 2.4, but there will be no lack of
capability.
Your point is well taken, but Toshiba has been around for a long time,
and I've been pleased using them since about 1990.
Totally correct.

--
bill davidsen
SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com

Bill Davidsen wrote:

Right, but I got reports from business partners that tarditionally use
Toshiba which show that the quality level isn't as good as it has been years
ago...

Benjamin

Bill Davidsen wrote:

Sure, but for the intended use 64bit is simply irrelevant. Everything else
is _much_ more important than having a 64bit cpu...

Well, I went through this already for three times (changing from 32bit to
64bit). Of course there are benchmarks that show how much 64bit makes
everything faster, but reality is that lots of applications simply will run
slower.

Of course You can, but the point is that Linux simply is suboptimal for that
purpose. It might be ok if You see it as a religion, but for people that
want to be productive Linux isn't an option today. And if Linux really
catches up in the future it certainly also will support the (at that time
not new any more) hardware of todays notebooks...

Maybe. But if the time comes Linux will also support the hardware that is
new today.

BTW: It's "MacOS X", not "OS/X"...

Yes, shopping after prerequisites for something that's totally irrelevant
for the intended use definitely makes it harder...

Benjamin

On 6/23/2005 20:36, Blondie wrote:
I am a thinkpad fan because their build quality is pretty good. I'm not
sure how they are now that Levono or whatever the hell they're called is
designing/making them. Look at the "T" series. Toshiba is also a good
build quality laptop as well as the Sony viao's. You get what you pay for
in many cases!

Dell laptops, unlike their servers and desktop systems, are just generic
P.O.S., exactly like Acer or any other no-name, designed and built under
contract by Quanta et al. Trust me, we have a couple here at the Co. and
we'll never buy another Dell laptop.

XGA, UXGA, WSXGA are acronyms referring to the maximum resolution (number
of pixels) that the screen can display. Other will correct me if I'm
wrong but IMSMR:

XGA == 1024x768
SXGA+ == 1400x1050
UXGA == 1600x1200

There are also the wide screen formats which I'm not at all familiar with
but I've seen typically marketed with a "W-" prefix. In short, ask the
sales droid to see the resolution *numbers* for the laptop's flat panel
screen rather than the acronym to be sure.

As for processor, you are getting apples and oranges with Centrino and
celeron. You will want either a Pentium 4 (if you don't care about
battery life) or a Pentium M processor. Celeron processors are based
either on the Pentium 4 or the Pentium M but are castrated in various ways
which make them rather undesirable except from a very cost conscious
angle. Centrino means you will be getting a Pentium M processor.

800FSB simply refers to the speed at which the processor talks to the main
chipset. Currently 800Mhz on laptops is only with Pentium 4. 533Mhz is
tops for Pentium M.

You seem like you will be purchasing a high end laptop. Typically, I
believe that the Pentium 4 will outclass a Pentium M in video processing.
If at all possible, bring your software and see for yourself which is
faster. Don't be alarmed that the P-4 will have a much higher frequency
than the P-M; the P-M is much faster, clock for clock, than the P-4 and
much more friendly to than battery.

With the type of work you're doing you also probably want to ensure that
the graphics are of the discreet type. This would typically be a radeon
or nvidia part with dedicated, high speed graphics RAM. This would NOT be
the graphics built into the general chipset which uses relatively slow
system ram for the frame buffer.

You also want to ask if your laptop supports dual channel ram *and* *then*
*ensure* that it is enabled in the model you purchase. A common tactic is
to supply just one SODIMM of memory which will halve your RAM bandwidth on
a dual channel capable machine. Other than that, just put a lot of memory
in it. You can probably save a few bucks and get good high quality RAM at
the same time by purchasing an upgrade from crucial.com

Good Luck!

~Jason

--

Benjamin Gawert wrote:
You are in a small minority (one?) of people who have experienced a
slowdown moving their existing apps to a 64 bit CPU. Can you tell us
which 32 bit OS and apps these are?

--
bill davidsen
SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com