I recently bought a Compaq R3000US laptop. The Best Buy salesman
offered a 3-year warranty at $250. His most compelling argument was
that a new battery would cost nearly that much ($189 on the web), and
the Li-Ion battery in this computer would almost certainly have to be
replaced in 3 years.

Is this true? Is the use life of these batteries that short? (I expect
to use the computer on battery power about 1 to 2 hours a day.) Also,
is the trouble-free record bad enough to make the warranty a reasonable
bet?

Thanks for any comments.

Fred

I'd get an extended warranty for sure. A new motherboard or LCD can cost
way more than $250. Just make sure that you get accident coverage (dropped
the computer, spilled coffee on the keyboard, etc.)

When I bought my Toshiba from Best Buy, I asked and found out that they
don't stock laptop parts - ten day turnaround at best on any laptop repair
that requires parts. Toshiba has an authorized repair facility nearby, so I
went with the Toshiba three year warranty, which covers one accident per
year, and cost me $220.



"Fred" <fredhanson@att.net> wrote in message
news:1103991975.640241.92690@c13g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...

Generally, extended warranties are not worth it.

However, laptops are one of the exceptions where such a warranty can be
worthwhile.

Personally, I don't buy extended warranties on laptops unless they
either cover accidental screen breakage (note, not failure, but actual
physical breakage -- e.g. you dropped the laptop) or, possibly, the battery.

In general, extended warranties with accidental damage coverage are
available only from the manufacturers (Toshiba and Dell offer them), and
not from the retailers. In general, the extended warranties offered by
the manufacturers are far superior to those offered by the retailers.

Now, as to the battery:

The battery life depends on how you use the laptop. If well cared for
and not abused, a Lithium battery can last 7 to 10 years. However, such
batteries have a limited number of charge cycles, typically in the range
of 300. Calendar time not withstanding, that is one of the "limits" on
the life of such batteries.

Also, as has been discussed here over and over (thousands and thousands
of posts), in most laptops, if you leave the battery in the laptop
continuously when you are running on AC power, you will probably pretty
much destroy the battery in 6 to 24 months. The culprit here isn't
clear, but it's not "shelf life". Perhaps it's overcharging, perhaps
heat, and by no means is this universally true, but it's the experience
of the majority of users that this is the likely outcome of leaving the
battery in a laptop that is almost constantly connencted to AC power
lines. Some argue that it's worth sacrificing the battery this way
because you get "UPS" power supply backup, however if you feel that you
need or want a UPS, a 350VA UPS costs 80% to 90% less than lithium
battery (and will run the laptop for a lot longer).


Fred wrote:

Not only does Best Buy not provide the actual service, but their
warranties don't cover accidental physical damage. And it's accidental
physical damage (your examples are good -- dropping the laptop or
spilling liquid on it) that is the major threat. However, as you
correctly point out, either an out-of-warranty motherboard repair or LCD
repair will cost a LOT more than any extended warranty.

But both the best coverage and the best service come from the extended
warranties sold by the manufacturers themselves, ratjer than the
retailer, in almost every case.

[However, Best Buy's warranty does cover the battery, which is generally
not covered by the manufacturer's warranty, and which can cost about $200]


Michael Rainey wrote:

I don't know about the warranty in question here, but the extended
warranty on a Radio Shack ("You've got questions? We've got blank
stares.") cordless phone covered batteries.

Perce


On 12/25/04 12:19 pm Tom McCune tossed the following ingredients into
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Tom McCune wrote:

Expect I'll have to replace them within 6 months.

I bought Dell's complete care warranty which covers any failure to the
system (even if I drop it, etc.). But the warranty on the batteries is
one year.

Barry Watzman wrote:

from keeping the batteries in at all times. The discharge/recharge cycle
does determine the life of the batteries.

No. Consumer expert Clark Howard says no way and I agree. Most
problems show up right away. It is known that most of the extended
policies payback pennies on the dollar if at all. Put that outragous
extra charge in a cookie jar. After buying a few items you'll have
enough money to pay for your own repairs in the rare case of a problem
showing up late.

Extended warranty problems:
1. Terrible service if any at all. Better to find your own service
place and have it done right. Having morons repair your hardware is
never a plus.
2. In a few years your hardware will be so outdated that the extra
warranty charge will or almost will buy another new item.
3. Repairing outdated hardware is never a bargin no matter how cheap.
4. Loopholes like with Sony where no matter what goes wrong they claim
you're not covered.
5. Simple economics. These policies often give retailers 10 times the
profit they get from selling the actual hardware. If this policy was a
good deal for the consumer they would be making a fraction of that
amount, more inline with their other profit margins.

"Fred" <fredhanson@att.net> writes:
I'm amazed if the Best Buy warranty covers the battery. Yes,
batteries do crap out. Replacements tend to get cheaper over time, so
a new A20p battery that was $200+ when the A20p came out is maybe $100
today from ebay dealers.

Whether long warranties in general are worth it depends on how you use
the laptop. For my usage, which is extremely heavy by most people's
standards, they are definitely worth it. I've had close to 100%
failure rate within 3 years (failure defined as anything that needs a
repair to restore full function to the laptop) with my past 5 or so
laptops, and all of them have been Thinkpads, which are among the
better constructed machines out there. I usually try to buy models
with a 3 year warranty but recently got a 1-year-warranty model (X40
refurb) with a Mack Camera extended warranty, so we'll see how it
works out.

The extended warranty business basically assumes that the laptop is
something like a camcorder. The average user will keep his/her
camcorder in the closet most of the time, but occasionally shoot video
of the kid's graduation or something like that. The camcorder gets
used just a few hours a year, and is unlikely to fail, so the extended
warranty is not worth it. But if the user is a real video buff who
uses the camcorder every single day, the chance of failure is much
higher, and the warranty helps. I'm a software developer so I use my
laptops 8+ hours every day and leave them powered 24/7. If your usage
is anything like that, I'd say go for the warranty. If not, just make
your own estimates. I don't think those Compaqs are all that well
constructed, so maybe they're more likely to need repairs than
a sturdier machine would.

My first laptop was a Dell Inspiron 8100. I bought the extended warranty
for an extra $120. In the first two years, I had to have the LCD, video
card, and AC adapter replaced. Without the warranty, I would have been out
over a grand to repair a computer that was far from obsolete. And yes, the
service from Dell was horrible.

I don't think the usual "don't buy the extended warranty" consumer advice is
valid for laptops. They get moved, opened, jostled, bumped, closed,
plugged, and unplugged a lot. People (like me) tend to use them while
eating and drinking, which invites an accident. Pets can smack the screens
pretty hard with their tails or noses. I think most people who buy laptops
tend to use them a lot rather than stick them in the closet like a
camcorder.

With a desktop, if you break off the the USB connector or spill coffee on
the keyboard, twenty bucks will usually put you back in business. With a
laptop, it's a new motherboard. A new 19" CRT is $125. A new LCD is $600
or more. Hard drives for laptops cost double. It's harder to repair
laptops, you sometimes have to pay for experienced help.

Laptops break more often, and cost much more to repair. A hundred dollars a
year for an extended warranty makes excellent sense to me.

In article <Fbizd.1451$Ov3.669@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
Jerry Park <NoReply@No.Spam> wrote:


Just because a battery is in the laptop connected to AC power, doesn't
mean it will charge continuously. Mine will charge the battery, showing
a yellow indicator (on an HP), and then it will turn green. If there's
any interuption of the AC power, even a momentary power bump, the light
will turn yellow for a while, indicating charging, and then back to
green when the battery is full.

--
Larry Weil
Lake Wobegone, NH

Re: "I have trouble believing any extended warranty would cover a
battery replacement."

Best Buy's extended warranty do indeed cover battery replacment.

"Michael Rainey" <rainey47@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3365llF3tngmaU1@individual.net...

Excellent analysis. I've been a Thinkpad user for many years now, and all
of them have died (i.e., needing systemboard or screen replacement) in less
than 3 years. The latest one had its motherboard fried when I spilled water
on the keyboard.

About the battery issue: heavy users can expect to see a significant
decrease in battery life in about a year.

Bill T

Re: "I don't think the usual "don't buy the extended warranty" consumer
advice is valid for laptops."

Even Consumer's Reports agrees with that .... BUT, it depends on exactly
what the extended warranty does and does not cover, and how you use the
laptop.

Best Buy's warranties cover batteries. Toshiba's SystemGuard warranties
cover accidental physical damage (e.g. you drop it). But most extended
warranties (including Toshiba warranties other than the "Systemguard"
warranties -- they sell several) cover NEITHER. So this is a question
that can't be answered with a blanket statement.


Michael Rainey wrote:

"Fred" <fredhanson@att.net> wrote in message
news:1103991975.640241.92690@c13g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
I agree with Barry about getting the extended warranty to cover accidental
damage if you travel very much. I recommend that people that travel a lot
with their laptop consider the warranty as part of the basic cost of
ownership. Stuff happens when you're moving around. Toshiba and Dell are
the only ones that I know that really back up the extended/accidental
warranty. I've had good experiences with both those companies on accidental
damage. If you get the Dell Complete Care warranty, it also seems to send
you into a little more responsive phone tree when you call in.

As far as getting the warranty from the store rather than the manufacturer,
normally, I wouldn't recommend it, normally. However, I did by the Best Buy
warranty on a Sony laptop once, because Sony has such a poor reputation for
service. You're sort of dependent on the manager at your individual store
as for how far they will go on supporting some problems. In my case, it
paid off, because Best Buy replaced a Sony laptop that Sony refused to help
on.

Fred <fredhanson@att.net> wrote:
For general info on batteries, see http://www.batteryuniversity.com .
What I remember from it is that LiIon batteries begin to suffer
slow but inexorable decrepitude the minute they leave the production
line, so even their shelf life is finite. Heat and frequent
discharge cycles (especially heat) shorten the life even more.

--
pa at panix dot com

Re: "Just because a battery is in the laptop connected to AC power,
doesn't mean it will charge continuously."

Agreed. Yet, it's clear that leaving the battery in a laptop connected
to AC power continuously frequently (if not even usually) does do
damage, and over time does destory the battery. The culprit may be the
charging circuit, heat or something else. And it's certainly not
universal and doesn't happen with every laptop model. But there are far
to many such experiences to deny that this is the case, whatever the cause.

PS - you cannot draw any conclusion whatsoever merely from the lights on
the laptop.

Re: "LiIon batteries begin to suffer slow but inexorable decrepitude the
minute they leave the production line, so even their shelf life is finite."

That's true of all batteries of all types. But, in fact, Lithium
batteries have by far the longest shelf life of any battery chemical
system -- up to about 10 years. NiMH and NiCad have a FAR shorter life
span.

Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> writes:
You're thinking of non-rechargeable lithium batteries, like photo
batteries. Lithium ion rechargeables are a different story.

Bill T wrote:

Read the store's extended warranty very carefully and if there is a
manufacturer's extended read that carefully too and see what, exactly, the
cover. For example the emachines extended warranty in addition to the
usual coverages also will replace a broken screen.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)