I have been a fan of both sony Vaio's and Apple Macs - had a Sony
desktop earlier, and have now switched to the new iMac with LCD. Love
the Mac OSX as an operating system, and the general design and
usability considerations of Apple over anything Windows supports.

Now here's my dilemma - am looking for a laptop to add to my resurces.
No computational use - I don't want to bring work home. I'm thinking
of one that will be easy to carry around, will be light and thin, will
allow me to watch movies in a flight without running out of juice.
I've narrowed down to 2 machines - the Sony Vaio PCG-TR2A subnotebook,
PIVM 1GHz/ 10.6" LCD / DVD / 512MB at 3.11 lbs, and the Apple
Powerbook G4 1GHz / 12.1" / DVD / 512MB at 4.6 lbs. Both of them boast
5+ hours of battery life (with the disclaimer about actual use), and
are light enough to be easily portable.

Would you care to share your opinions about these two machines, on a
side by side pros and cons basis? My greatest cons with the sony are
the stick-out DVD tray and the bogus windows operating system, while
with the G4 it's the extra 48% weight as compared to the sony.

TIA,
kundan

Kundan wrote:
While Sony makes some great products, they've become one of the *worst*
companies, when it comes to after-the-sale support.

Search this newsgroup, and others (e.g., comp.sys.laptops), for details.

Personally, I'd go Apple.

Larry

Lawrence Glasser wrote:
I really have to contest your contention that Sony does not provide
adequate after-sales support for Vaio laptops. I have read these ngs
for years and have done archive searches on this very subject and have
found very, very few quantitative examples, but many, many,
unsubstantiated opinions about Sony service. There is a continuing
issue with a group of Vaio users who contend that a given series of PII
(!) laptops has a reliability issue that they contend that Sony will not
address. Other than that singular instance, Sony comes across as having
the normal level of equipment and peripheral problems as any laptop
manufacturer. Most other laptop vendors do have issues with specific
series of laptops which have caused frustration among users. Dell and
Gateway are currently leading the pack with verified service and
reliability problems. For my money, Sony Vaio laptops have the same
quality and reliability as the best of laptops and rank up there with
Toshiba in terms of quality and reliability. I have had nothing but
good experience with Sony service, as good as Toshiba, since many Tosh
service centers are Sony service centers as well; certainly better than
HPaq, Gateway, and Dell (except for Dell in the late 1990's). My
service experiences as a 15-year Macintosh owner are far worse than any
Wintel laptop could ever get away with; running from excellent to
abysmal, with abysmal more typical.

The sad thing is that there really is *no* quantitative way to judge
service issues with laptops since there are no quantitative, unbiased
evaluations of service. It is, however, akin to the worst kind of
unfounded gossip to simply repeat "what everybody knows" about a given
company's quality of service issues with no factual basis for the
opinion save other's similar gossip.

Q

Quaoar wrote:
My comments were based on trying to get service for my wife's VAIO, my
attempt to get any kind of pre-sales information on another Sony laptop,
and comments from other posters.

It was not based on "what everybody knows."

Larry

It was

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 02:16:01 GMT, Lawrence Glasser
<lglasser@spamcop.net> wrote:


the build quality is good enough that comparatively few people
actually need it - out of 7 or 8 VAIOs, I've had to call them once
(trying to get an 3rd-party PCMCIA CD-ROM to work, and yes, they were
no help whatsoever.)
That said, I haven't been impressed with the build quality of the
TR series. They seem much more cheaply put together than the C1 that
I'm writing this on, and I'm not tempted to buy one. If anything, I'll
wait for the X505 (viewable at www.dynamism.com) to reach our shores,
or try some new Thinkpad subnotebook variant.
Emanuel

I'd also like to throw in the 12" iBook, just 'coz it's about the same
weight and $500 cheaper!

So far, reading the other laptop discussions, looks like Sony does
have a terrible customer service. Oh well, that's a BIG negative over
Apple ... wonder how they keep up the brand name?

cheers
-kundan

Kundan wrote:
With some of the nicest designs on the market, it's (sometimes) easy
to overlook after-the-sale support.

Larry

personally I too would go Apple... in fact I did switch from an aging Vaio
to an iBook about a year ago.

The Vaio was fine but a bit plodding... the iBook is a joy to use. It's
not just hardware design and build, but also tha better software that
makes using the Apple such a pleasure.

m

Take a look also at the Fujistu 5020D, cheaper than the Sony and more flexible
in terms of extra batteries. With the extra battery in the bay you can easily
get 8 hours of computing time.

I would be highly scepticle of the 5 hrs quoted for the Apple, their laptops
have traditionally been poor performers for battery life. The 5 hours for the
Sony is barely obtainable ... if you want to watch a DVD using the builtin
drive you will get closer to 2.5 hours at best.

Emanuel-
thanx for the website link - they do show the "bleeding" edge of
technology!

Mollw-
you're right about the "feel" of apple - I simply love it - it's
such a welcome change to come home and get my hands on my iMac after the
long hours at office on the stupid wintel desktop!

I was wondering about the iBook in comparison - it *is* a good $500
cheaper, with about the same weight and dimensions, albeit a less cool look
.... any thoughts about that?

cheers
kundan
__________________________________________________ ________
Kundan Sen

You May Be An Engineer If...
If you carry on a one-hour debate over the expected results of a test that actually takes five minutes to run

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, mollw wrote:

I am suspicious of the 5+ hours battery life you have quoted for both
laptops - the Pentium IV-M is pretty power-hungry, and the G4 isn't much
better. If you look at some of the in depth reviews of G4 and 4M laptops,
you'll get a
better representation of the battery life, and maybe even get one specific
for playing DVDs.

Preferably I would suggest Pentium-M

Look out for one with a good screen. Apple's and Sony's screens are
notoriously good (I think the apple screen might even be made by sony).

Will you me using headphones? I was going to suggest going for an IBM T40
(not just because I have one), but the speakers, while high-quality and
clear, are in fact a bit quiet. Fine if only a couple of people are
watching, but further than 3 feet away, and you need a really really quiet
room to hear the film.

Plusses for the T40 - It's as light as the powerbook 12" at 2.2 kg, and has
a larger 14.1" creen.

But then again, my drive seems to be a bit noisy playing DVDs - everything
else is so so quiet that this is a little bit of a disapointment - but the
IBM service centre tell me that this isn't normal and are sending me a new
drive on Wednesday. So I might be able to tell you then if it's quieter
(and then the speakers might not be such a problem then).

Otherwise - I think the apple would be a better option, simply because I
think G4 consumes less power than 4-M.

Duncan.

"Kundan SEN" <ksen@caip.rutgers.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.56.0312042302170.19327@caip.rutger s.edu...

Have both here to try out.

TR2A is the killer in terms of weight and screen. It is a feather,
easily one-handed moved about vs. the heavier iBook, where you must take
notice and be careful not to drop the slick, white plastic machine. The
screen is super-bright, and super-clear - DVDs on the TR2A play like
you're looking at the world's greatest plasma display with super-rich
darks, super-contrasty, colorful displays. iBook is like a pale, faded
rendition next to it due to the lack of advanced AR coatings.

Both run fine for 4+ hours on the go for office apps. YOu can word
process just fine on both, keyboards on both are comfy and good.

iBook white, glossy casing is the toughest case to keep clean I've ever
used. Every fingerprint, every smudge, every scratch shows up on the
case like crazy, and you must use a microfiber cloth to clean it daily.
TR2A case is much more friendly, and you only have to worry about deep
scratches on the matte metal case.

Both run about as fast - 1Ghz or slower processors in both = about the
same performance for just about everything from office, web, to dvd
playback. You can drop either in for the other and they'll get the job
done the same.

----

That said, iBook screen is bigger, but not as clear or contrasty good,
so if you want easier to read screen, it's the way to go.

If you want super-stunning, jaw-dropping (yes, even for a computer guy
who has seen every laptop display out), the Sony TR2A playing NEMO is an
ibook killer by far! Even tops most standard laptop displays for the
sheer richness of colors and contrast.

Weight-wise, nothing beats the TR2A - makes the iBook seem like a
'regular' notebook in weight - and 3.11lbs travel weight is far lighter
vs. 4.9lbs on the ibook in reality.

Built-in camera on the TR2A is a + not found on the iBook. Great for
pictures, videos, video conferencing.

iBook is more stunning for sheer design alone. Looks fantastic closed
on a black desk. TR2A looks, well, ordinary.

----------------------------

Final go? If you want work done, either can do it just fine for office
and regular uses.

If you want the best-of-breed, TR2A in a flash with
no-money-is-an-object. The combination of power, screen, weight, and
digital camera in-one is just unbeatable.

Money is tight? iBook G3 900Mhz combo models on sale for $599-799 today
(www.fatwallet.com/forums/ -> hot deals). mhz is the most important for
office & web work, so if that's mostly all you do, ignore the G3/G4 factor.

You can use the benchmarks of the 900 Mhz iBook vs. the Powerbook G4's
here for an indirect comparison (iBook G4's won't run faster than a
Powerbook G4, so you can rest assured that the comparisons can be
applied to the G4 iBook):
http://macspeedzone.com/html/hardwar...ok/index.shtml

Nothing can beat a $599 brand-new 900Mhz iBook combo at this price range
for the features and value in a small subnotebook, and you can't go
wrong with them.

================

That said, you can go smaller (Sony U-series, JVC Interlink XP seriess,
Toshiba Librettos, lighter (Sony PCG-X505 series, Panasonic W2 series),
more bang-for-the-buck (if weight isn't a concern, that $499 Toshiba
2.4Ghz notebook on sale last Black Friday after thanksgiving; the $999
eMachines M5310 15.4" widescreen at www.tigerdirect.com; etc.), etc.

The smaller Toshiba Libretto, Sony U-series, and JVC Interlink XP series
are among the few notebooks you can carry in a large man's pant pocket.

www.conics.net and www.dynamism.com carries them all.

Don't need Windows? Sharp SL-C750/C760 Linux palmtop PDA's with 640x480
screens and the full power of Linux at <9 oz
(http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/030516.html).

I have a $4000 PCG-GR170K thta has every component replaced at least once, 4
hard drives!! and still gives trouble, tech support said time to replace the
whole thing, they even gave me aloaner for a trip but it had similar
issues, esp speaker feedback and HD noise, senior management said "NO" so
the laptop will go back in again and so on as long as the extended warranty
lasts. It has been a real pain, and expensive. Techs are fine, mostly,
although I take the beast in myself and have to demo the problem or else it
comes back no fault found. Trying to access tech support...now that is a
worse story. Feel free to contact me for details. My next will be a Toshiba
Tecra M1 on order now.
"Quaoar" <quaoar@tenthplanet.net> wrote in message
news:dr-dnbnmTvGnyFKiRVn-hQ@comcast.com...

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.553 / Virus Database: 345 - Release Date: 12/18/2003