Hi,

A friend who is shutting down his computer store
discovered that he literally has has a 5 year old
laptop "new" in a sealed box, and he is willing
to sell it to me.

It's a rare opportunity for me to buy a computer
that would be usable, more or less, and it's a
model that I've owned and enjoyed in the past.

However it does have the two unused batteries in it
that have sat never-used for these 5 years.

One is a coin-shaped lithium battery, replacement
cost $15.

The other is a typical Lithium-Ion laptop battery
that would cost $150 to replace, if I could even
get one.

My question is, is there any risk either that

(A) either battery has begun leaking acid, keeping
in mind that they are lithium-based not Alkaline

(B) that either battery may be ready to explode.

Thanks for any help!

I don't think either battery is likely to explode, but lithium ion
rechargeable batteries tend to wear out over time, even if unused. So
that battery will probably not hold as large a charge as it would when
it was new.

Any 5 year old laptop isn't worth much regardless. So don't pay too much.

The battery may or may not be good, but if it's properly designed, it
should not be hazardous. Actually, lithium batteries can last more than
a decade, and I would not be surprised if it's still good.


scrunchy2k@yahoo.com wrote:

Lithium batteries are more stable and last longer than any other battery
chemical system. There are plenty of 10-year old lithium batteries that
are still alive and kicking.


Paul Rubin wrote:

Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> writes:
We're talking about lithium ion rechargeable batteries, not lithium
primaries. The rechargeables do lose capacity over time, especially
at high temperatures.

Paul Rubin wrote:

In this case the battery has been sitting on a shelf, uncharged, for 5 years
apparently. It's very likely that it has self-discharged below the
threshold at which its self-protective circuitry prevents recharge.

A lithium primary cell would still be good, but this is not a primary cell.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On 15 Jul 2005 18:30:09 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

and to clarify what Barry said, "There are plenty of 10-year old lithium-ion
batteries that are still alive and kicking." I have one in an Acer laptop that
is 9-odd years old and still delivers over half its intial rated endurance.

Battery issue aside, u wanna go into eBay and checkout how much people
are unloading the said machine






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Thank you.

budgie wrote:

Have you ever let it sit on a shelf for five years without charging it? IN
USE they'll last a long time. If they aren't kept charged they
self-discharge below the threshold at which they can be recharged.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 00:44:01 GMT, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:

My pedometer, that I just started using after having it for more than
one year, has this type of battery, and it doesn't have a switch to
turn it off. I think that says something...

Tom

Tom MacIntyre wrote:
Different type of "lithium" battery and doesn't have anything to do with the
subject!

--
James

Tom MacIntyre wrote:

That's not a lithium-ion rechargeable.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

No arugment that it's not going to be as good as a new battery, and it
may be no good at all, but this is a battery that has been stored,
unused, at presumably room temperature for 5 years. The chances that it
is still "good" [if not in "new" condition] are quite high. Many of
these batteries last more than a decade, and this one has zero "cycles"
on it (although a "few" cycles might have been better).


Paul Rubin wrote:

I have over a dozen 1996 to 1998 Toshiba PA2487 batteries that still
deliver more then 75% of their new capacity (that will still run a
490CDT Pentium II laptop for more than 2 hours with all power management
turned off and everything -- including screen backlight and hard drive
-- running continuously for the whole time).


budgie wrote:

That's a fair enough concern, it would be interesting to hear back from
the original poster as to what the status of this particular battery
actually was (and I'd also like to know the make/model of the computer).

I do accept your premise as a possibility, I don't accept it as a
certainty. I do a lot of work with old laptops, many from the 1996-1998
era. Quite a few of these have batteries in them, and have been sitting
on a shelf or in a drawer for a long time (years) with batteries in them
(which is even worse, because there is some current draw). Many, many
of these batteries are then fully chargeable and functional, while
others are indeed totally and irrecoverably dead (but may have been so
when the laptop was last in service).

Barry Watzman wrote:

FWIW, I encountered this with my old Thinkpad 770, which a friend's daughter
was going to take to college with her. It had been sitting for a couple of
years, had been working fine when I last turned it on, but was dead and
wouldn't charge after sitting. Got a new battery for it and it was fine.
She had a tantrum when she found out that the disk wasn't big enough to
hold her MP3 collection but that's another story . . .

Seems to depend on the charging circuit too--I have an external charger for
Sony Infolithium batteries--if I let them sit too long it won't charge them
but they charge fine in the camera.

So I wouldn't be so bold as to say that it was certain to happen, but I
would be so bold as to say that before I paid money for a machine that had
been sitting that long I'd want to know for sure.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> writes:
I don't think there's any obstacle to putting a larger disc in a 770.
I still have a 770 and intend to do that sooner or later. A 770 would
make a nice mp3 player and I might set mine up that way. It's just
sitting in a box doing nothing right now.

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:00:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:

As a commercial Li_ion charger designer, I have done a fair amount of both cycle
testing and storage testing. After 2 years at room temperatures, a pack of
three 18650 cells had lost about 10% charge, and that was from full charge. The
best charge state for long-term storage - and the state in which new packs are
far more likely to be delivered - will certainly lose no more than this.

Also, when cell/pack voltage drops below the recharge threshold this does NOT
preclude recharging. Rather, the pack exhibits a high impedance to the charger
and absorbs only a "qualifying" charge (similar to under-temperature behaviour)
until that threshold is reached, at which time normal charging resumes.

That threshold is not a "death sentence" as you infer. It is applied for two
purposes. Firstly, to protect the cells against further discharge and possible
descent into unstable conditions. Secondly, to ensure that "normal" charge
levels aren't able to be imposed on cells at that SOC.

scrunchy2k@yahoo.com wrote:

kinds of fire risk. I have heard that it is unwise to recharge a lithium
batter that has flattened below a certain voltage ( I think it was
1.5V/cell but can't remember for sure). In any case the chips inside the
pack would protect you by refusing to recharge if it is dangerous. To be
on the safe side, for the first couple of charge-discharge cycles, you
could keep it in a non-flamable area e.g. on a concrete or metal surface
and supervise it.

Chris

budgie wrote:

Was that sitting on a shelf by themselves or installed in a laptop?

So if I had let my Thinkpad charge for _another_ two weeks it would have
charged up? I don't think so.

Don't assume that everybody designs things the same way you would design
them.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)