Does anyone know if/when Win4Lin will support Win2K/XP? Windoze software
vendors are going to stop supporting Win9x pretty soon and I really really
don't want to have to boot into Windows to run Quickbooks.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:48:20 -0500, General Schvantzkoph wrote:

Why don't you ask them? Last time I asked (about 2 months ago) they said
they were working on it, but had no release date.

--Kamus

--
o__ | If you're old, eat right and ride a decent bike.
,>/'_ | Q.
(_)\(_) | Usenet posting`

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:48:20 -0500, General Schvantzkoph
<schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:
You don't need to worry. Win 9x will be supported for quite a while
yet. Something like 30-40% of the Windows desktops are still using it,
and no big software company like Quicken will want to lose that big a
market. Even Microshaft saw that Win9x wasn't going away anytime soon
and recently extended support for Win98 for another couple of years.

Netraverse (Win4Lin) is one kick-ass software company with the best
customer support I've ever seen. They say they're working on Win2k/XP
support, and when they say they're working on something, you can bet
they are. They're not gonna miss out on a market that large, either.

So relax. But in the very long run, you'd be ahead to trash Quickbooks
for GnuCash or another native Linux alternative.

--
Registered Linux user #266531

In article <a3b4261a9cf43cba35654e0e0c00d8ab@news.teranews.co m>,
Crashdamage <03z1krd7@nospam.invalid> wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how does Win4Lin comare these days with VMWare.

I checked out Win4Lin a couple of years ago, and it didn't seem to be the
real deal (basically, seemed to be in about the same league as Wine).

VMWare is the real deal. But it is pricey.

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 03:39:35 GMT, Kenny McCormack wrote:

What didn't you like about Win4Lin? I tried VMWare and found it to be
too slow and memory consuming to be practical. I then tried Win4Lin
and was very satisfied. And the price was right.

Bob T.

In article <c1p2u5$jm7$1@yin.interaccess.com>, Kenny McCormack wrote:

Dunno. I run WinMe under Win4Lin, and everything I've ever
tried to run ran perfectly -- networking and all. I can even
ssh from Windows to Linux, and from Linux to Windows (on the
same box).

Some programs work better under Win4Lin than they do under
native Windows.

Never saw any reason to give VMWare a try.

Win4Lin has always been the "real deal" for me...

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! World War Three can
at be averted by adherence
visi.com to a strictly enforced
dress code!

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 03:39:35 GMT, Kenny McCormack
<gazelle@yin.interaccess.com> wrote:
Well, Win4Lin is definitely in another class from using Wine.
I checked out VMWare and Win4Lin when I made the move to Linux about 3
years ago. Tried VMWare 1st and was very disappointed, especially with
the stability and speed. I probably could've worked out the stability
problems, but it was obviously always gonna be slow. I thought I'd
found the real deal when I loaded Win4Lin, and I've used it ever since.
I've long ago gone native Linux at home for almost everything, but I
still need Win4Lin for running IE to work with a couple of websites
that insist on it, pcAnywhere now and then, and TaxCut once a year.

For most purposes, Win4Lin kicks VMWare all over the screen.
Super-slick installation, and unlike VMWare, it was immediately
rock-stable (so stable it almost makes Win9x seem like a reasonable OS),
much lighter on resources, and ran Win9x fast - roughly as fast as
native Windoze, sometimes even faster - yeah, **faster**. VMWare will
never be able to do that, by the very nature of the differences in how
the systems work.

VMWare was originally written as a developer's platform, and that's
still what it's best suited for. Unless you need some particular
functionality in VMWare that's not in Win4Lin (not much, other than
support for WinNT and DirectX, and Win4Lin already has partial DirectX
and they're working hard on WinNT and full DirectX), I can't think of a
good reason to spend $300 for VMWare. And like I said, Win4Lin customer
support is the BEST!

--
Registered Linux user #266531

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 01:59:31 +0000, Crashdamage wrote:

I'm specifically worried about Quickbooks, I doubt that Intuit will
support Win9x beyond this year on a business product. Also Intuit is
dropping support for Quickbooks 2002 (which is what I'm currently using)
at the end of the year which will force me to upgrade to either Quickbooks
2005 or to a competing product (which I'm inclined to do because Intuit is
worse than Microsoft in my opinion). There aren't any other Windows
applications that I ever need to upgrade so 9x isn't an issue for anything
else, especially since the Linux equivalents for the few other Windoze
apps that I use, like Office, are fast improving and should reach the good
enough stage in the next year or so. Unfortunately there will never be
an open source equivalent for Quickbooks. GnuCash can replace Quicken but
it will never be able to replace Quickbooks because that requires keeping
up with the tax code for both the US and for all 50 states.

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:44:48 -0500, General Schvantzkoph
<schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'd put real money on Intuit supporting Quickbooks on Win9x at least as
long as M$ officially supports Win9x. Win4Lin will be available with
Win2k/XP support long before you have to worry about that anyway.

I don't use GnuCash for business, just my home finances the last 3
years. So I can't answer all your questions. But a lot of people do
run businesses with it. Yeah, it's still a work in progress and doesn't
have every feature that anyone might want, but it's getting there. It's
really expanded and matured to the point that it incorporates a lot of
business functionality. Enough stuff that there are even worries about
program bloat a-la Quicken/Quickbooks now. Go to the GnuCash website
and check it out or post your questions about particular functions you
need on their excellent user mailing list.

And there are other Linux finance programs that might work for you. The
entire world doesn't use Quickbooks - there *are* alternatives.

You're basically right about Intuit, they're a terrible company. I
wouldn't trust them to keep tax codes for the US and 50 states straight
anyway. Sounds like a recipe for an audit disaster. Definitely, the
best thing would be to get offa their bandwagon as soon as possible,
one way or another. The longer you use Quickbooks, the deeper Intuit
has their hooks in you.
--
Registered Linux user #266531

In article <slrnc40471.n47.BobT@linus.cs.queensu.ca>,
Bob Tennent <rdtennent@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well, I am glad I started this conversation (took this thread in a new
direction). Admittedly, my experiences are limited to the few things I've
tried, and I'm pretty sure we would all agree that time is a stronger
factor in determining how well things work than is product (vendor). I.e.,
as time goes by, they all get better.

Anyway, about 2 or 3 years ago, I evaluated both products, and found that
VMWare was indeed very, very slow and thus unusable, but that it was the
real deal - that is, an emulation of a PC as opposed to an implementation
of a software platform upon which (some - some small number) of
well-behaved Windows apps (basically, when all is said and done, Solotaire
- and after that, all bets off) could run. Wine doesn't even give you
a desktop, really, it just gives you a window on your X desktop running
a single app. Win4Lin (at that time), gave you a desktop, but I found that
almost nothing (e.g., IE) worked right. I can't really answer the question
that some have posed (What didn't you like about it?) other than to say
that (at the time), it seemed to be no better than Wine.

If things are indeed better now, then I probably should give them
(www.nettraverse.com?) another try.

BTW, I'm pretty happy with VMWare at this point; I only use it for a couple
of applications, that don't have Linux equivalents, and it works well
enough. Performance is about the same for the main app that I use it for,
since that app is all network based (no disk activity). I'm curious as to
how some people can claim that "it runs better under <emulator> than under
real Windows". This has to just be hyperbole, right?

On 2004-02-27, General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:

Probably best to ask this on the Netraverse.com site.

Hmm. Will your current version of Quickbooks automatically stop running
at some point?


--

-John (JohnThompson@new.rr.com)

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 15:05:58 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote:

Nope. ext2/3+linux is far faster than FAT32+win9x; disk intensive apps do
in fact run faster under win4lin than native windows. Also, for whatever
reason, win9x appears to be more stable under win4lin than native, but I
can't quantify that.

--Kamus

--
o__ | If you're old, eat right and ride a decent bike.
,>/'_ | Q.
(_)\(_) | Usenet posting`

On 2004-02-28, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@yin.interaccess.com> wrote:

I have both here: Win4Lin v.5 and VMware v4 and thus am in a position to
directly compare them.

Win4Lin only supports Windows 9x/ME; VMware can support almost any x86
type operating system. I have NetBSD, Win2k, Win2003, RedHat-7.3, and
Solaris-x86 installed in VMware here.

Win4Lin does not support USB devices; VMware does.

Both support a very wide variety of Windows software and are quite
stable. Much more compatible and stable than Wine, in my experience at
least. But don't expect to be able to use high-performance games in
either Win4Lin or VMware.

Win4Lin is very lean and resource efficient and runs Windows programs at
or near native speed and with minimal impact on other processes running
on your system. VMware is quite resource intensive and is very noticably
slower than running in a native Windows session. My whole system slows
when VMware is running, but I don't have a cutting-edge system here
(PIII-600 with 384MB RAM).

Win4Lin stores its data using your linux filesystem, making it available
to you independently from the emulation software. Ie, if you create
documents using some Windows program you can directly access those
documents from linux. VMware uses a "virtual disk" for its Windows
filesystems and the contents are only available via VMware. If you want
to use, say, a PowerPoint you created in VMware on your linux system, you
have to transfer the document from the virtual disk to a place where linux
can use it. VMware includes a samba implementation to make this easier,
and newer versions support "shared folders" so this isn't quite as onerous
as it used to be. You can also tell VMware to use an existing Windows
installation as a "raw disk" but this requires some jumping through hoops.
You have to set up separate Windows "hardware profiles" for the native
and emulated sessions and remember to select the proper one when you boot.
You must also disable linux' access to the Windows filesystem while using
VMware otherwise severe (as in "unrecoverable" -- been there, done that)
filesystem corruption can result.

Win4Lin is relatively inexpensive. VMware is quite expensive.

In my own use, I tend to find Win4Lin to be my preferred Windows
environment under linux. I only really use the VMware Windows
installations for specific tasks that Win4Lin can't handle -- USB support,
Win2k exclusive software).

--

-John (JohnThompson@new.rr.com)

In article <pan.2004.02.28.16.08.47.946326@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com>,
Kamus of Kadizhar <yan@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com> wrote:
I still don't see it. If the Win4Lin model is different than VMWare, then
please inform.

Under VMWare, Win9x sees a FAT32 disk - it has to, since Win9x can't handle
any other kind. So, any software inadequacies of the filesystem are there,
and eating up CPU cycles. Are you saying that under Win4Lin, the MS OS
somehow knows that there is an ext2 filesystem underneath?

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 15:05:58 GMT, Kenny McCormack wrote:

Not at all. You'd be using *good* drivers, rather than whatever drivers
are available for Windows. Many of the stability problems on Windows are
from poor drivers.

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:27:40 GMT, Kenny McCormack
<gazelle@yin.interaccess.com> wrote:

Some apps will run slightly slower, some slightly faster, most about
normal speed. Windows boots very quickly, only about 5-10 seconds
depending on your hardware and what Windows loads at startup.

Win9x is *very* stable under Win4Lin. In thosands of hours of use over 3
years (I used to have to run it much more than now), Win4Lin/Win98SE has
crashed only twice I can remember. This is mainly due to Linux actually
handling the drivers and hardware, and doing it far better than Windows.

Tony does a nice job of explaing some of the basics about this. The
speed advantage of Win4Lin vs VMWare is mostly due to the Win4Lin
patches in the kernel, which to put it very simply, allows Win4Lin/Win9x
to run processes in a more direct fashion than VMWare. Yes, unlike
VMWare, Win4Lin uses a custom-patched kernel, but installation is
painless, if you remember. Check out the Win4lin website for more
details.
--
Registered Linux user #266531

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:17:37 +0000, John Thompson wrote:

partial support for at least some USB devices.


--

jabali

Please send e-mails to jabali@freeuk.com

Crashdamage wrote:

Does GnuCash print a "batch" of checks the way that Quicken will? I've never
understood why that feature was not in GC.... and if it is there now, I have
not seen it in the docs (but have not looked in the past few months.)

When we moved from Win to Linux a few years ago we could not (easily) run our
own PUB123 (www.adams-blake.com) system. We needed something cross-platform,
so we spent the next 18 months writing JAYA123... as a web based system.

We use our own www.jaya123.com web-based order entry/inventory/etc system to
run our business in conjunction with an ancient version of Quicken running
under Win4Lin. JAYA exports a .qif file for all receipts that Quicken will
suck in. Works great for us as well as our growing user base. YMMV.

I'd like to get off of Quicken but need to print lots of checks. I know GC
will read a .qif file, but TTBOMK you can't "queue up" a bunch of checks to
print like you can in Quicken.... or can you?


Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
***
JAYA123 - the new web-based total-office system for the
small biz. Order entry, billing, bookkeeping, etc. for $14.95
a month. Everyone says "It's cool as a moose!!"
See why at:http://www.jaya123.com
***

In article <c1qfua$nfv$1@yin.interaccess.com>, Kenny McCormack wrote:

It is different. Win4Lin isn't emulating PC hardware. It's
running Win9x with a set of windows drivers that sit on top of
Linux services. When Windows wants to write to disk, it's
actually using Linux's file I/O drivers.

No. We're saying that Linux's fileio is so much more efficient
than Win9x, that disk intensive programs run faster under
Win4Lin. I think it's the same with network stuff.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Are you guys lined up
at for the METHADONE PROGRAM
visi.com or FOOD STAMPS??

On 2004-02-28, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@yin.interaccess.com> wrote:

No. When a Windows app crashes in an emulator, it just affects the
emulator; it does require you to shut down the whole d*** system and
reboot to recover. That alone makes using Windows apps in an emulator
under linux "better than under real Windows."

--

-John (JohnThompson@new.rr.com)