The first hour and forty five minutes was a big personality test meant
to test how well I would "fit" in their group. They even asked what
kind of team sized I've worked in before (does it really matter?). 2
of the 3 interviewers seemed to have terrible personalities (one was
rude and kept interrupting the team lead, the other was very quiet and
just stared blankly at me with a bit of a rough look). These two also
could not communicate at the grade 10 level (or maybe worse). What
gives these people the right to test my personality? Can the best
psychologist in the world test my personality properly in such a short
time? I was extra kind, made sure I smiled lightly once in a while,
and never interrupted any of them.

Near the end I was quickly given a small technical filter:

First, I was asked to swap two integer variables in C without defining
a new variable.

Then, I was also asked to explain the 'static' keyword. I started off
by using phrases like "linkage," "block scope," "storage duration
changes from automatic to static," "defined externally," etc. but
quickly rephrased because I realized they didn't get what I was saying
(apparently "globally defined" and "defined inside a function" were
things they were waiting for me to say).

I had a third question which was basically a very long C expression
devoid of any brackets. This tested how well I memorized the C
precedence and associativity for all the C operators (I have a feeling
that I could fail all 3 of them if I was allowed to make a similar
expression for them to do).

These types of interviews give too much power to the hiring manager.
He/she is basically given the power to pick someone he/she wants to
become friends with. What's with these personal interviews?

BTW, this was not the HR interview. I had that on the phone previous
to this one. This was with the hiring manager and two technical team
members. Only people who pass this personal interview move onto the
3rd interview, which will have more interviewers from the team.

To all you hiring managers out there, please stop taking people who
can't communicate at the grade 10 to interviews that are meant to be
conversational personality tests. That's not to say they shouldn't be
hired, because a lot of these people are really good developers - just
keep them out of the interview rooms.

In message
<7221d690-3790-4eb1-b5e9-7ff4897938b4@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Kenneth Bull <kenneth.bull@gmail.com> writes
Yes.

You mean you could not communicate with them?

You want a job. They want to see if you fit their team.

BTW one outfit I know does the tests and then takes you to the pub. The
"pub interview" over rides al the other tests and interviews.

Yes. Even a moderately good one could.

They have seen your Cv, seen your ability to fit in. If you did not
have the qualifications and experience you would not have got to the
interview

How "too much" It is his/her decision to hire.

Not quite but they will want a team that works well socially as it will
be far more productive.

To see if you will fit in with the company and team ethos and way of
working

It is just that you and they did not communicate with YOU. I would love
to hear their side of the interview :-)

I bet you didn't get the job?

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

"Kenneth Bull" <kenneth.bull@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7221d690-3790-4eb1-b5e9-7ff4897938b4@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
apart from:

a = fn (a, b, &b) ;

fn (a, b, *c)
{
*c = a;
return b ;
}

which is F-ing stupid, I can't do this.

However, what's the point? Even if I do create an extra variable for this,
the compiler wont. It'll just stick the intermediate value in a register,
just as you would do if you wrote the quickest ASM solution.

It always annoys me how managers show such little knowledge of how compilers
work.

You obviously haven't been on enough interviews. IME this is always the
required answer. There are an awful lot of wanabee engineers out there who
simply do not know the answer to this question.


At most places this is the most important thing. Once at a certain level I
can teach you to 'code my way'. I can't each you to "ft in".

tim

"tims next home" <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:67glmeF2orp5rU1@mid.individual.net...

They were testing for trick-book knowledge, AKA experience. AFAIR:

// NEVER use this for I/O registers.
// For general use, you might need a critical section here.
//
void swap_int(int &x, int &y)
{
x ^= y;
y ^= x;
x ^= y;
}

The comment lines are there to start a deep and endless discussion on
subjects you know all about, and getting you a job.

Regards,
Arie de Muynck

tims next home schrieb:
I think they wanted to see this one:

a = a ^ b;
b = a ^ b;
a = a ^ b;

It's one of the bit-hacks from the useless-category.

Nils

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:27:27 +0100, the renowned "tims next home"
<tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

int a, b;

a ^= b; b ^= a; a ^= b;



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Nils" <n.pipenbrinck@cubic.org> wrote in message
news:67gn8dF2o4p0uU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...

I hadn't seen that hack before, but I worked out this method,

a = a + b
b = b + a
a = b - a
b = b - 2*a

Seems to work for a few sets of numbers i've tried including negative
numbers.

--
DaveN

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:27:27 +0100, "tims next home"
<tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

a ^= b;
b ^= a;
a ^= b;

Which "works" but violates the clarity clause: Thou shalt never write
code so clever that it prompts a "WTF?" response. I believe there's
also a corollary that forbids "This is F-ing stupid." ;-)

None, really. One has either seen this trick somewhere along the way
or one does it using the typical (and clear) approach using a scratch
variable (with which the compiler is free to have its way).

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

Nils <n.pipenbrinck@cubic.org> wrote:

Probably, because they are idiots...

Personally I would want to hear that the candidate knows of the triple xor
'trick' but would never use such obscure code which prevents the compiler
from recognising and producing optimum code for the desired end result.

Has anyone got a compiler (optimisation on) which generates better code
for a triple xor rather than swapping through a local temporary?

--

Nils wrote:

Try working with a uC that has a total of 64 bytes of RAM.
Swapping two variables without using a third increases the
available memory by 1.7%.

Still, it's not a great interview question. It would
be better to show them a code snippet with a fencepost
error and a syntax error and ask them if they see any
problems with it.


--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/>

In message <SLedncSo5fNPo47VRVn_vwA@giganews.com>, Guy Macon
<http@?.guymacon.com/.invalid> writes
Actually it is irrelevant.. The compiler will probably look at those
three lines and optimise them by using a register :-)

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 02:50:37 -0700, Kenneth Bull wrote:

First: How can the hiring manager have too much power? It's his job to
hire good people, he should have the final, if not all the say. A
business is a place to make money, not a place to be jolly and carefree.

Unless the hiring manager is judging you by some criteria that's illegal
in your country (in the US your gender, color, and willingness to have
sex with the hiring manager would all be in that category) then he should
be free to make whatever decisions he wants, subject to the above
constraints and any laid on him by his boss.

Second: You've just been given a superlative view into the company that
wants you to come work for them. The workers are surly, poor
communicators with odd notions of competence, the managers engage in
practices that you don't approve of. So this is your chance to balance
the desirability of having this job with the alternatives. If it's as
bad as you make out, have _they_ passed the interview?

So, what's the big deal?

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

What is the problem? This is you who begs them for a job.
Employment is slavary. Contracting is whoring.


:-)

VLV





Kenneth Bull wrote:

"Rich Webb" <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote in message
news:b8a614h0oi7gd32ga7tr2pvcnob365ljf8@4ax.com...
Not in 25 years, no.

It seems that this makes me a crap engineer :-(

tim

Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
So the word "job" is misplaced. They typically are after someone
to "fill a position", and the work is meaningless anyway.

I have not written a CV in my life, whenever I have taken jobs
(last time I was on someones payroll was 15+ years ago) I
typically I have been chased, a contact has sufficed. If
someone does need my services, he will locate me.

The "wanna be important boss" type drives me sick. What drives
me even sicker is the aforementioned type who thinks what
he does matters.

I could agree with that, I guess.

Well, let's say whoring is contracting :-).

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments

http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tg...7600228621276/

Original message: http://groups.google.com/group/comp....b?dmode=source

In message <q_HQj.12028$GE1.10282@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>, Vladimir
Vassilevsky <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> writes
So are you a slave or whore?

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In article <67h347F2p57t7U1@mid.individual.net>, tims next home says...
I don't think I'd blame that. It's a cute parlour trick but I'm not
sure it amounts to more than that. Has anyone actually seen this in
production code? If so was it actually justified?

Robert
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Robert Adsett wrote:

Even in uCs with very few bytes of RAM, I have never seen it.
The usual techique in such cases to keep the data where it is
and have the code in ROM switch where it looks for the data.

--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/>

"nospam" <nospam@please.invalid> wrote in message
news:6cc6149mfrtccl637dt47ko81t9htl2lgq@4ax.com...
XOR!! XOR!

I once lost marks years ago...

MOV AX,0 took something like 2 ticks. XOR AX, AX took 1 tick.

Assembly language programmer here btw.. I'm at one with the machine..
Well, something like that. And my interpersonal skills are awful, I don't
do chit chat, except when paraletic in the pub.

There comes an age where you can get hired WITHOUT a CV. Just from your
reaction to things. HR, "We need a CV." Me, "Sorry I don't CVs." And they
actually do think that I care about their piss pot company.

"Vladimir Vassilevsky" <antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:q_HQj.12028$GE1.10282@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
Begs them for a job!! They should be begging me to pull a rabbit out of a
hat, to solve the over spec'd nightmare that plagues them in bed at night.

You only have to look at all of the utter crap (coding wise) that these
companies churn out. And the amount of graduate programmers that they
employ who are fucking useless!! (pardon the pun). Yes, I'm female, and
no, I don't have a problem in the male dominated workplace. I just tell
everyone to fuck off, and then get the job done while they're all
complaining at being told where to go. Pretty effective really. Sod
politics! And yes, there are alot (ALOT actually) of jobs that I haven't
got, but it doesn't bother me. I'm me, I can program a computer, and I can
spell.

Well I liked it.