Hi everyone and Embedded gurus,
I live and work in the US. I've never gotten a job in the Embedded
field, and only my final year project 10 years ago was in the embedded
field. Also for a couple of years I've been a doing thats out of field
(web design). My resume thus doesn't look at all for applying for any
Embedded job.
Does anyone know what I can do to get my foot in the door? I would do
personal projects to get experience but no one does those unless they
aren't being pushed by a teaching authority.

Are there any good recognized places in the US where I can get a
certification in the Embedded field? These would tell the recruiters
that I know the field and am up to date and that I know what they want
me to know.

thanks a lot
Amir

On Sun, 04 May 2008 22:15:56 -0700, Amir wrote:

There's not really "certification" for embedded work -- one does it, or
one doesn't.

Get yourself a copy of "what color is your parachute". Some of it is
pretty dorky, but it has good advise in there.

You don't want to talk to recruiters. You want to talk to hiring
managers. You probably want to go to a smaller company (they're more
flexible), and accept an entry-level job until you prove yourself.
Finding who the local sweatshop is and working there for a couple of
years to gain experience may be a good idea -- the sweatshops don't pay
much, and they're grim to work for, but because of this they always have
turnover, even in the bad times. Once you have a year or two of that on
your resume, go looking for real.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On May 5, 5:36*pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:


I'm only 21 years of age and even *I* wouldn't go spend a year or two
in a place like that. Working in a "sweatshop" type of place will
probably have more of a detrimental effect on your character and
spirit than it will a positive effect on your future employment
prospects. I worked a desk job for a year and it turned me into a
boring f*ck that rarely laughed. It was like rehabilitation when I got
out of the place, I laughed more in one day than I did in a week.
Jobs, employment isn't everything.

If I was looking to get somewhere in embedded systems, (and I am, but
I'm gonna enjoy myself in Thailand for a few years first), I'd work on
hobby projects and get better and better. Then when it comes to the
interviews, I'd just wow them with what I can do. I'm in my third year
of college, I'll be getting a Bachelor's Degree in Electronic
Engineering after my exams which start in about a week's time. A
friend of mine, however, dropped out only a month or so ago, and he's
already getting 30,000 Euro a year (that's equal to about 46,500 US
dollars, but I don't know what the story is on cost of living in the
US). They were looking for someone who had a degree but instead he
went into the interview and just wowed them.

The people who stand out are:
1) Intelligent, inventive, able.
2) Really enjoy what they're doing.

I think the greatest sign of success is whether you'll stay up til 4
in the morning working on your own little hobby project, without the
thought that you "need to get it done for college" or that you need to
do your job for money.

In the US, Carpenters, Plumbers and Electricans make more than that.
They are the real Engineers.

On May 5, 8:47*pm, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:


Same in my own country, but only after they've been in it for a few
years. They get paid peanuts for their first few years.



Engineering is about designing and testing. Coming up with ideas,
testing them, discarding the bad ideas, progressing with the good
ideas, more testing.

Fair enough carpenters produce some really nice creative stuff, but it
doesn't take much at all to be successful as a plumber or electrician.
I know some people I went to school with who were really thick but are
now earning about 35,000 Euro a year as electricians. Not to sound
untactful or offensive, but that's what all the stupid people are
advised to do in my country, i.e. get an apprenticship as an
electrician or plumber. Other than that, all they can do is stack
shelves.

"Tomás Ó hÉilidhe" <toe@lavabit.com> wrote in message
news:71e02b1c-3990-4d03-8d5a-0556eed2fec0@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 5, 8:47 pm, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:

I believed you pushed one of my many hot buttons.

"Not to sound untactful or offensive, but that's what all the stupid people
are
advised to do in my country, i.e. get an apprenticship as an electrician or
plumber."

Yet you managed to sound both untactful AND offensive.

Folks who are successful at being tradesmen (plumbers, electricians, metal
workers, etc.) are far from "stupid". Furthermore, they have a range of
talents beyond the understanding and ability of many engineers.

These men and women are required to have general knowledge of several trades
in order to effectively do their job. Additionally, they are required to be
intimately familiar with the rules and regulations of their field. As part
of their job, they perform calculations relating to electrical loads, HVAC
capacity, water and sewer pressure and capacity, etc.

Unlike most engineers, they are also required to pass a licensing exam; and
they put that license on the line every time they sign off on a job. Only
engineers who elect to earn licensure as Professional Engineers can say the
same.

So, just because someone is better at building or repairing instead
engineering, or just elects to go into that field, does not mean they are
stupid. The stupid ones are those who are unable to see that.

I've worked as both a tradesman and as an engineer. At 60, I prefer the
office environment on most days, but I do miss the dirt and grime now and
then.

In closing, before you denigrate an entire group of professionals, spend a
few minutes learning something about what it takes to be one of them. You
might find it educational.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox and go back to lurking.

Richard

On May 5, 10:48*pm, "Richard Seriani" <richard_s...@cox.net> wrote:


I knew the statement was going to be offensive; there are times when
you can't express a view without causing offense. The only reason I
introduced it with "Not to sound..." was to show that I wasn't
deliberately trying to flame.

That statement wasn't a lie either. There are usually two choices for
school-going people in my country:
1) Do your "Leaving Cert", achieve the necessary amount of points to
get into your college course
2) Get an apprenticeship

When someone's doing poorly at school, the teachers start to advise
them toward getting an apprenticeship. That's not a lie, nor a flame,
it's a fact.

Again speaking purely from my own experience, I've never seen an
intelligent person aspire to be a plumber, electrician, metalworker.



I finished my country's equivalent of High School four years ago. I
still know quite a few school mates who finished High School at the
same time as me and who are now plumbers, electricians and also sheet
metal workers. When we were in school they were thick -- they couldn't
give you the volume of a cylinder even if you wrote the formula down
for them. No joke. They were useless at picking up languages, useless
at doing maths, useless at understanding the refractive index of
water, useless at understanding why a mole of any gas has the same
volume. In fact one of these people is a close friend of mine and he
regularly acknowledges that he's thick even when I try to encourage
him; he's expressed an interest in computer programming and I've said
to him why doesn't he try to pick it up, I said I'd give him a hand
with it, but he just says "No Tom, you know me, I'm thick". Regardless
of that though, he's a great sheet metal worker. Just recently he
received an invitation to take part in some sort of metalwork skills
competition; he was hand-picked from his class to take part in it.



Well again, not trying to deliberately cause offense, but I know
plenty of electricians who are useless at maths. How do I know? Well I
was in the same maths class as them for 3 years, until we were
segregated into Foundation Level, Ordinary Level, and Higher Level.
Higher Level generally consisted of the smart people. Ordinary Level
was the average to below-average people. Foundation Level was the
people who were as thick as two planks who couldn't get their head
around any sort of concept.



Are you saying that electricians, plumbers, metal workers are
engineers? I consider them to be tradesmen, something very distinct
from an engineer.



I'm speaking purely from my own experience about the people I know,
the people I went to school with.



And more power to you. Do what you enjoy. Personally, I'm thinking
about working in my own country for the Summer, saving the money and
then living off it for the rest of the year in Thailand.



I did metalwork in school, if that's worth anything. I definitely
understand that it takes skill to do metalwork; you have to practise
it for a while to get better at it. Some of the people I describe as
"thick" might even have greater potential than me when it comes to
metalworking.

The difference between something like electronic engineering and
metalworking is that engineering requires intelligence. With
metalworking, you can practise it and get better and better. With
electronic enginerring though, you won't get anywhere if you're thick.

In my country, there's been a decline in recent years in the amount of
people doing electronic engineering in college. In an attempt to
remedy this, they lowered the entry requirements for the course. The
result of this is that there are some very thick people in the class,
and these people hold the class back. The result is that the entire
course is getting dumbed down. They've already started changing the
names of qualifications, turning a "Diploma" into a "Degree" for
instance. It's only a matter of time before they're calling a
"Certificate" a "PhD".

On May 5, 11:36*am, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
Thanks Tim, I ordered the book now, seeing its good reviews as well.
By sweatshops do you mean local small companies that still do
embedded?
I'm counting on this book. I have no other idea what to do. Well - I
found out a $45 certification from an Indian company and will try that
in any case. In my case, anything is better than nothing. I'll keep
searching. I was thinking there might be some training sources or
institutes in the US.

thanks!
Amir

On May 6, 12:02*am, Tomás Ó hÉilidhe <t...@lavabit.com> wrote:
Hi,
I would second Tims thoughts.The sweat shops ,in my experience provide
great work experience which even the best of the companies cant boast
off.Imagine getting a Job of writing device driver for a PCI card as a
fresher.I have worked on a similar environment in starting.At least in
the country where I am some of these big companies just keep all these
trainees on bench keep them trained and later put them into not so
interesting work.Work in most of these biggies are more into
porting,reviewing,testing.Theres very little scope to be
creative.Small companies have poor work environment but good work.Big
companies have great work environment but poor work.I believe any one
in initial stage should be more then willing to toil to learn things
and get his hands dirty.Only then some one could become a professional
if not an expert in the domain.Ofcourse money is important ,but thats
not the end of the world.What you loose in initial few years will be
compensated double or triple once you gain experience.
I wish not to get into flame war of whether porting reviewing and
testing are not interesting.My personal opinion is doing something
from scratch is more creative and challenging then the above
mentioned.

Regards,
s.subbarayan

Amir wrote:
you can. Buy a development kit and go. If you are lucky you may live
near a city where your chosen CPU company gives courses. Check the web
sites there are app notes and on line video stuff. once you pick a CPU
find the groups and forums that support it.
If you ask which you should start with you will get 500 reasons why CPU
X is better than the rest. You might as well ask for the best sports team.
Decide what embedded means to you 8 bit ASM or 32 bit embedded linux?
If all you are doing is web design expect several months before going on
an interview. And even if you pick a bigger CPU and or a HLL learn ASM.
It is important to know.

On May 6, 2:26*pm, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon
Clubley) wrote:

While I basically agree with everything you said, I'd like to point
out that it can be difficult to find and follow a direction in
unprogrammed learning. If you're anything like me, you wind up in "fun
chip syndrome" mode, where you have a shelf of fascinating parts but
can't think of anything important to do with them.

I am dealing with that problem right now; I've been given several very
interesting eval boards and a huge load of fun cellphone LCDs (color
and b&w) and I'm trying to think of something useful to do with them.
I've made a digital clock that counts in Babylonian base-60 cuneiform
numbers, and I've made a full-color artificial horizon for my truck
(with an accelerometer), but besides these eminently practical and
necessary appliances, I'm a bit at a loss as to how to use up these
parts.

In article <c7a78d68-0c9b-43c4-90f0-44123b1ffa25@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, Amir <ushakil@gmail.com> writes:
I'm going to, in a good natured way, pull you up about that last comment. :-)

You may not want to do embedded hobbyist projects without someone pushing
you to do them, but that doesn't mean that others, myself included, share
your mindset.

Speaking for myself, I'm a professional programmer and _not_ a professional
electronics guy, but I enjoy doing embedded hobbyist projects, and I actively
regard the research and problem solving involved as something that I enjoy
doing for it's own sake.

Personally, I think that if you are wanting to move into a new technology
based line of work, regardless of what it might be, then you really need
to be at least somewhat enthusiastic about that line of work, which means
been willing to develop yourself and have a desire for identifying and
filling in gaps in your knowledge without having people push you to learn.

Otherwise, I don't think that you are going to enjoy your new line of work.

Please regard these as good natured comments; you just got me started by
suggesting that no one would do embedded work as a hobbyist unless they
were pushed. :-)

Simon.

PS: I would also be interested to hear any different views, BTW.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

In message
<c7a78d68-0c9b-43c4-90f0-44123b1ffa25@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, Amir
<ushakil@gmail.com> writes
Don't go into embedded work. It is as simple as that.

Unless you are enthusiastic about the subject there is no point. There
are already plenty of embedded engineers out there with experience and
an interest in the subject.

If you don't enjoy web programming any more and have no internal "push"
to do embedded it is the wrong career choice. If you were that
interested you would have been doing your own projects for "fun" and
asking questions as to why things were not working.

Find a different career



--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Don't go into embedded work for the money. Unless you are much better
than the Chinese Engineers making $10,000 or less a year.

Chris H wrote:
I think the criterion is even simpler. If you like to design and
build logic hardware, go into it. You are obviously already
interested in program logic. Embedded requires both fields.

--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
Try the download section.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

larwe <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> writes:
I'd be interested in knowing how a turn-and-bank indicator
for your truck is useful. You must have unusual uses for
your "truck" (pickup?).

In message <20080509.793E940.92DF@mojaveg.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,
Everett M. Greene <mojaveg@mojaveg.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com> writes
In a region that has roads that are not level left to right a truck
that has a high center of gravity might need to know.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

On May 9, 2:26 pm, moja...@mojaveg.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com (Everett M.
Greene) wrote:

Yes, it's a pickup <http://www.larwe.com/scout/>. It's a 1965
International Harvester Scout 80 with the stock slant 4, 152cid engine
and three-speed transmission; maximum safe speed 55mph.

While some people do use these trucks for very extreme offroad
competitions, I was actually being utterly sarcastic when I said
"eminently necessary and practical". I figured most people would glean
that fact from the Babylonian clock if nothing else...

larwe <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> writes:
You can get it to go that fast? We jumped some antelope
on the eastern Colorado high plains one time and couldn't
get over 40 MPH in 4WD. The antelope were laughing as they
disappeared over the horizon.

That one I suspected from the cuneiform (sp?) numerals...
The artifical horizon wasn't quite as suspect since boys
will install all sorts of devices in their toys.

On May 10, 10:25 am, moja...@mojaveg.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com (Everett M.
Greene) wrote:

If you look at the transmission ratios, add in the t-case in high
mode, and factor in the radius of the nominal tires, 55mph is the max
speed you can run without redlining in 3rd gear. There is a Warn
overdrive available, but it is exceedingly rare and expensive. The
speedometer is pretty jiggly and likely quite inaccurate, but I think
I've had the vehicle moving as fast as 50mph (as measured by GPS).

I rarely have the truck in 4WD mode because my front hubs are manual.
So the 2WD/4WD lever on the t-case is all very nice, but once you push
it, you have to stop the truck, get out and lock the hubs. Can't
permanently run it in RWD mode with the front hubs locked because it
will damage the front diff.