A friend of a friend has an old PC (Pentium 100, Windows NT SP6a)
which she wants to connect to the Internet using RoadRunner.
Unfortunately the self-install program refused to run, either
because NT is not supported or because the PC is to slow (or both
perhaps, it wasn't made clear to me). So what options does she
have with RoadRunner?

The PC is not too slow for a cable modem, and in fact the previous
owner had an RCN cable account for years. (Albeit using Windows
98, but that really doesn't matter. After wiping the PC and
installing NT we could still use RCN with no problem). I suspect
this is entirely an installation issue, but I don't know enough
about RoadRunner to know what the workaround might be. So I have
a couple questions:

1) Does RoadRunner *require* any software running on the PC? The
connection to the RCN cable modem was pure TCP/IP, which NT can
handle natively. Does RoadRunner work the same way, or does it
use PPPoE, or something like that? I looked on the RoadRunner web
site but I couldn't find any technical details there.

2) When I got my Verizon DSL account I discarded the software CD
they gave me, hooked up a router, got my account name and password
by calling Verizon tech support, and was flying along in no time.
Can something similar be done with RoadRunner?

3) Is there any way to use RoadRunner without installing special
software and without using a router? I suspect there isn't, because
somebody -- either the PC or a router -- has to supply the account
name and password to the cable modem, but if I'm wrong please let
me know.

Any other thoughts would be most welcome!
--
John Brock
jbrock@panix.com

jbrock@panix.com (John Brock) wrote in news:c9lvud$93j$1@panix3.panix.com:

Their software is not required, and it's best forgotten. Like the RCN
cable modem, it's pure TCP/IP. No, no PPPoE or anything like that.

You may need to call them to get the modem's MAC registered. That is the
only authentication done for Internet access. Using their e-mail server
and their account management stuff (mostly to create additional e-mail
addresses) will require the account name and password.

Yep, you are wrong. No special software is required. No account name and
password needed for routine Internet connection. Just remember, your
computer has to be set up as a DHCP client. Whomever you call to check
about your modem's MAC registration, the acount name, and password should
be able to help you set this up if you need help.

But I would *strongly* recommend a router, just for security. You don't
want to put a software firewall on this machine (too much system
overhead), and I'd never have a broadband connection without some sort of
firewall protection. So a router is the way to go.

John Brock wrote:

RoadRunner does not require any special software. Just set the ethernet
connection for DHCP, plug and go.

Hactar wrote:

Many years ago, people used XTs on 10 Mb networks, with no problem. The
concern is the applications, such as the browser, may be too slow for some
people.

--

Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong.

To reply to this message, replace everything to the left of "@" with
james.knott.

"James Knott" <bit_bucket@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4cDvc.4275$Wg.625@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
Didn't Radio Shack sell ethernet adaptors for their old TRS-80 line? They
were 1 MHz Z80 machines (8-bit) with less than 64k RAM!

Bootstrap Bill wrote:

I know I ran a spacecraft telemetry display from a PC (AT I think) with, I
believe only 640KB of ram, off an ethernet LAN maybe 15 or so years ago.
I had it talking to Sun, PDP and Masscomp computers - so it certainly
wasn't impossible. Z80's might be a stretch though.

On 2 Jun 2004 21:46:53 -0400, jbrock@panix.com (John Brock) wrote:

The box I have connected to the RR modem is a 100MHz 486DX4. It is
running Slackware Linux configured as a firewall with a dhcp client on
the first NIC. A second NIC connects to my home network, where there
are several different MS-Windows computers, all with full Internet
access. I also have several Linux servers, each of which have full
access as well.

The moral: you don't even need MS-Windows.

That said, 100MHz is painfully slow for any version of MS-Windows. I
won't put Win98 on anything slower than 266 MHz, unless it's a laptop
and I am willing to deal with slow response so the battery will last
more than 15 minutes. But NT performance was barely acceptable on a
500MHz P-III.

Bob McConnell
N2SPP

Not at all. There is tcp/ip support for vintage atari 8bits and commodore
64/128s. Those were 6802 based machines. Web Browsing might be a touch
annoying on such a vintage system, but internet access does not equal web
browsing.

Web browsing, generally speaking requires a system with a mathco. You can
do it without it, I had an old 386sx machine running netscape some years
back. It was not very practical for displaying .jpeg images, gifs were ok
though. Not displaying images though the system was useable, otherwise,
brew a cup a tea while your hotmail loads. But if this isn't an issue,
there is alot a pre-pentium machine can do on the net.

There are many reasons they reccomend what they do. If I was in charge of a
broadband network, I would set limits on the age of system I would support
to those that have PCI or USB with chipsets that are known to work with
network adapters. Anything below a pentium 166 can be a pain in the tookus
due to slugish dust and dander filled cd-rom drives, sub 3gig hard disks.
Not to speak of difficultiy finding drivers for anything that wasn't around
when Windows 95 was released. But not supported just means they won't hook
it up for you, feel free to attach any device with a working ethernet
adapter and DHCP.

"matt zukowski" <#z#ak#ez#u#k#e@periastron.com> wrote in message
news:2ialdpFl80o1U1@uni-berlin.de...
Windows 3.1/DOS 6). I was running an early version of Netscape (1?) and
Trumpet Winsock, and had no problems. Of course, the web wasn't very
sophisticated back then. No flash or Java applets.

matt zukowski wrote:

Besides the reasons already cited, there are a couple practical reasons
for the minimum requirements:

1. Training of agents. The typical ISP puts agents through about two
weeks of training. That's a good chunk of money to spend on someone who
probably will either fail miserably or move on to a better job within a
year. There's hardly enough time in those two weeks to cover what is
supported. There certainly is no extra time to train agents on every
weird thing that they may only run into once every six months.

2. If the experienced computer hobbyist takes the time to prove they can
get an ancient machine to "work", that's one thing. But if the old man
down the street with the Pentium 166 running Windows 95 orders
broadband, and then gets online, the experience is going to be less than
impressive -- and he's going to blame the ISP, not his inadequate
hardware. And he'll be on the phone with support every day, meaning they
would have to do that extra training even though in the end it won't
help.

Software may have technological reasons for minimum requirements. Web
pages with more than just text may have technological minimum
requirements. But technically, any computer capable of TCP/IP
communications can get on the Internet. I'll need a 10baseT Ethernet
adaptor to connect to the modem, but once it's connected, it's
connected. But beyond that, there are those practical limitations.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates here:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

In article <l1hvb01k2arkbgk6kkid03kr6ipbc5gg54@4ax.com>,
Bob McConnell <rmcconne@NOSPAM.lightlink.com> wrote:

I disagree! I was running Windows NT on a 486DX100 with 64MB RAM
until last summer, and I thought it was quite acceptable. Not fast
like my new PC of course, but menus and windows all popped up
reasonably quickly, and even IE6 was usable. Note though that when
I bought my old PC I maxed out its L2 cache to 256K. I can't prove
it, but I've always suspected that this was a wise decision which
helped extend the machine's useful lifespan by quite a bit. However
the PC that my original post was referring to is a Pentium 100 with
80MB RAM, and after installing NT it also seemed reasonably snappy.
I think NT is an appropriate OS for these machines, since it dates
to about the same time period as they were made.
--
John Brock
jbrock@panix.com

Yes, we are dealing with windows NT 4.0. I forgot there is a really good
reason not to support this. Unless you are running service pack 4, NT came
with some version of Explorer pre version 4.0. You can't directly visit
microsoft's site to update as you need internet explorer 4.0 in order to
download service pack 4 with internet explorer 4. It's a catch 22
situation. If I remember correctly, the version of Internet Explorer that
came with NT 4.0 has the ability browse the web and download software, just
the microsoft site won't let you navigate their own site. My experence is
from roughly the year 2000, they may have made it easier for NT 4.0 users to
update their software, but it's doubtful.

Resolutions:
1. Download Netscape or Mozilla so you can at least browse the Microsoft
site manualy, or just use Netscape and forget about updating windows.
2. Download SP4 from a site that doesn't require a modern web browser, or
get a copy from a friend who has an updated browser.
3. Get the offical SP4 disk from microsoft if they still have it.

But assuming we are dealing with a person who already has had net access in
the past, and actually installed these service packs before Microsoft set
minimum browser requirements on their website, or already have a modern
browser they are happy with this wouldn't be an issue.

In article <2icbbcFldslaU1@uni-berlin.de>,
matt zukowski <#z#ak#ez#u#k#e@periastron.com> wrote:
I just want to point out that the PC in question has SP6a (from
the official MS CD) and IE6, plus all subsequent patches. When I
set up a PC I do it right! I didn't know about the catch 22 thing
though. Interesting. So that's why some copies of NT come with
an SP4 CD in the box!
--
John Brock
jbrock@panix.com

I wouldn't nessicarly say NT 4.0 without sp4 isn't doing it right, one might
have a good reason for not installing it. I kept that service patch off a
pentium 166 of mine for a good period of time simply because of its
peformance drag. The only reason I bit the bullet was because I got a copy
of back office, and came with and required sp4.

I can't honestly say why Microsoft included sp4 with NT 4.0 later in it's
life. I assumed it was just because it was a product sold for about 4
years, and they didn't want to take the time to create a 2nd edition.