On Friday morning my DSL stopped working. I suspect it was because I
changed my local phone service from AT&T to Qwest to get a better package
on regular service.

The symptoms were that the basic modem DSL connectivity was there but they
probably transferred me to an older, or longer line in the switch, which
pushed the DSL connection beyond the point that data transfers could be
made reliably and without timing out ( MTU couldn't be set at the right
value, DHCP nameservers couldn't be found ). I'm at the fringe of DSL
support, 12700 feet from the station anyway, so it's a good guess at what
happened.

Anyway, it took a while (half a day )to convince them that it was a problem
on Covad's part ( Earthlink uses Covad hardware for their DSL service in
this region ). In the process of all this convincing, I ended up talking
to about 6 or 7 different support techs as different tests were tried and
failed.

But here's the fun part. They always ask, "What operating system do you
use?" Inevitably, when I respond, "Suse Linux", there is a long silence
at the other end. If I were talking to them on a video phone, their
expression would probably say *What????* .

But then I let them off the hook and say, "and I dual boot W2k".

Whew! Big sigh of relief.

"Do you want me to boot into Windows?", I tease.

"YES PLEASE!", comes the response. ( Even though Suse has much better ADSL
diagnostics, from what I can see ). I tried once to convince the tech
that the OS shouldn't matter when it comes to DSL especially since I have
been using both OSes for two months now without problem.

I guess desktop Linux shocks the IT establishment still.

On Sat, Mar 06, 2004 at 07:08:01PM +0000, Popeye 'Bailo' Doyle wrote:
When I ordered Road Runner in manhattan, the tech who installed it was
weeping with joy when He saw my bookshelves piled with GNU/Linux books.

He knew he'd have an easy time of it, he said, and he did.

--
GNU/Linux revenues last quarter: $1 Billion.
micros~1 revenues last quarter: $4 Billion.
It's no longer a question of windows or GNU, it's a question of *Unix* or GNU.

Popeye 'Bailo' Doyle wrote:
Considering that most tech support types work off of scripts that are
written for Windows or Mac, that doesn't surprise me. What does surprise
me is that this problem has nothing to do with your OS, and everything
to do with their equipment.

Oh, and the first and most powerful assumption tech support people make
is that it's a user problem, not a software or hardware problem. As for
software or hardware problem on their end -- well, to them that just
can't be possible.

(In all fairness, I can see wanting to eliminate end-user error because
that is a likely scenario for many problems. Once that's eliminated,
though, it's time to do some real thinking and work.)

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:08:01 GMT, Popeye 'Bailo' Doyle stood up and said:
I had a problem with my cable modem last year (Road Runner). The
network went down for almost a day. This hardly ever happens and when
it does, it's usually back up within 30 minutes. I finally decided to
call tech support and the first question they asked was what OS I was
using. I said Linux and they told me they don't support Linux.
They even refused to log the problem! I hung up in disgust. 30 minutes
later I decided to call back. I got a different tech support person
this time and when she asked what OS I used, I told her Windows 2000.
She then starting giving me instructions which amounted to bringing up
some diagnostic app (RRMedic I think). Of course I didn't have it since
it's a Windows/MacOS app so I just kept saying "OK", "yep", "done", and the
like. In the end, the support amounted to pinging the DNS server which,
of course, I couldn't. *Finally* she logged the problem and the network
was back up inside of two hours.

Popeye 'Bailo' Doyle wrote:

[...]
it's more like, "shocks Earthlink technical support". by extension,
"shocks DSL tech support, nearly everywhere". i've found the same
problem with two different ISPs now. i can try to explain all i want --
that it isn't the O/S, it isn't my hardware, it isn't my connection,
nothing has changed at my end, but until i utter the words "microsoft",
"internet explorer" and "outlook" we don't make any progress. mention
the word "router", and some refuse to continue until you unplug
everything, install the PPPoE client and try to connect.

i figure the adage is true: (use of) Microsoft makes you stooopid.

jmw wrote:

True, I have the same experience here, and I'm in Brazil!!!!

They also say they don't support Linux, and my connection here works much
better than with Windows (which is still in dual boot, that I'm about to
clean up).

Arnold wrote:

<snip>

LOL. Already done the same thing here (and I'm in Brazil). It's funny how
they seem to refuse, at any cost, that the problem may be with their lines.

And the fun is, as I already mentioned in another post, pppoe seems to work
better here under Linux than under Windows... (under Windows sometimes I
have problems connecting...)

John wrote:

<snip>

<snip>

True, usually the tech support is given through a call center, and there is
a script for each possible situation. You may note sometimes that they make
questions that surely have nothing to do with your problem... It's because
it is in the script and they have to follow it!

Actually, many times (in many companies) great part of the people answering
you, at least at the first "stages", don't have much background (if any) in
IT, that's why you pass through 7 or 8 people - i.e., after all those
scripts you are finally forwarded to someone may have a clue about what may
be happening...

Honestly, I'm not a fun of call centers. Most of the ones I've seen around
here don't give a good support and finish by impairing the company's image
before its custumer. I've seen /many/ complaints about this here.

Keith wrote:


My distance from the CO is above 12000 feet, so most DSL companies --
including Qwest -- don't service my apartment. I was luckly to get Covad
Earthlink, although when things go wrong, even they say that DSL is tricky
at the distance.

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:36:06 +0000, Popeye 'Bailo' Doyle wrote:

There's always cable.
--
Rick

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:54:26 -0300, Paulo R. Dallan wrote:

Still, you have to realize that the average user pretty much needs to be
told "The modem has to be on", "Your computer has to be on" and so on.

I still have a family member who, upon installing Office XP thought they
were running Windows XP.... These are the people that the lower levels
of tech support are there to deal with.

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:43:00 +0000, Rick wrote:

There isn't always cable. In Las Cruces NM, we've had DSL service for
several years, still don't have any cable modem service in the area. BTW I
recently picked up the Qwest/MSN package - 640k DSL for $35/month. Had to
download 'hotwayd' for msn e-mail service, and set up sendmail for
outgoing mail, but it's all working fine now.

Ori Bernstein wrote:
If people think your ISP has crumby support, you should try doing
business with amerion. They leave you on hold for about 15 minutes and
then asks for you to leave voice mail that they never answer.

Another gripe is their lousy modem banks... half of the time the modems
won't answer the phone or screw up on the handshaking. Getting on is a
real pain.
I've yet to speak to anybody after I call.

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:08:01 +0000, Popeye 'Bailo' Doyle wrote:

<snip>
This reminds me of a conversation with tech support at 3COM in ancient
times. I had a 3COM NIC working under DR-DOS but I wanted to know
something about configuration. The conversation went roughly,

"So you're using DOS?"

"Yes."

"OK, before we go on, I've got to tell you that there's a serious
problem with the current version of DOS, so we probably need to look for
a workaround."

"You mean the current version of MS-DOS? I'm using DR-DOS."

"Oh. Then you should switch to MS-DOS and then I'll try to work with you
on a fix."

"Why should I switch to MS-DOS?"

"Because if you're using DR-DOS, you could have problems."

"But you just said if I ran MS-DOS I'd have problems."

"Yes, but everyone is using MS-DOS, so if you use DR-DOS you could have
problems."

"But I'm not having problems and you're telling me that if I switch to
MS-DOS I will have problems."

The tech support guy then became agitated as we argued the point some
more. He finally grudgingly gave me the info I wanted, but under
advisement that I switch to MS-DOS. It sounds like a comedy routine, but
that's how it happened.