Two years ago Santa brought me a CD-RW drive. I'd heard about Gentoo,
',' had mentioned it a couple of times on COLA, and the thought of a
src based distro appealed to me.

I downloaded the gentoo ISO and off I went. It took 3 attempts before
I succeeded basically because I was in too much of a hurry and didn't
read the install doc carefully. If there's a single rule to a
successful Gentoo install is it read the docs. Even in those days,
pre-1.0 release, the install doc was excellent.

It took a long time to get everything built but it was fun. After
getting X setup I read more of the docs on www.gentoo.org. How the
portage (package management) system works, the init system, the USE
variable and lots of other stuff. Gentoo really is a very special
Linux distro.

Although it was a very new distro I was hooked. This was a Linux
system for me. Not for everyone of course but there is a Linux distro
to suit most peoples needs.

Since then it has been Gentoo everywhere. On my laptop at work, all
the Linux servers I admin are now running Gentoo.

Gentoo has been evolving all the time. This year portage-ng will be
developed. Not satisifed with an excellent package management system
the Gentoo developers are going to make it even better.

I've used many many Linux distro's over the years but for me Gentoo is
simply the best. One of its nicest faetures is being able to do a
Gentoo install within a chroot environment of a currently running
system. No downtime until the new system is ready to be booted.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 21:47:25 +0100, rgc@swissonline.ch (Roy Culley) wrote:


I'm considering giving Gentoo a try.
I've installed Slackware and Debian with little trouble but I'm not sure I can
handle Gentoo.
I will most likely go with stage 2 or 3 and see what happens.

flatfish+++

On 2004-01-02, Roy Culley <rgc@swissonline.ch> wrote:
I have to admit, I can't fault Gentoo at all.

I initially had my doubts about my ability to install Gentoo properly,
but those fears were totally unfounded. Yes, it takes time, and you
do have to read the docs properly, but the satisfaction you get from
geting a system that is totally rock solid is well worth the hassle.

I too am hooked on it, and I really can't sing the praises of Gentoo
too much. I'm currently running SuSE 9 on my laptop, but I'm afraid
that has to go, just as soon as Gentoo release a version with a default
2.6 kernel source.

--
Mark Gary

On 2004-01-02, flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> wrote:
My advice. Go for a stage 1 install. Its takes time, yes, but its well
worth the hassle. But what you get is an OS totally tuned to your system.

I had lots of doubts in my mind before I attempted the install. Once you
are passed the initial setup phase, its all plain sailing. Just
*read* the docs. I did exactly what Roy did. I was so eager, that
I skimmed the docs, and got into trouble. But luckily I was able to
dig myself out of it.

--
Mark Gary
--
Mark Gary

On 2004-01-02, Roy Culley <rgc@swissonline.ch> wrote:
I'm really excited about portage-ng. The module-oriented architecture
being designed is very cool.

--
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net #gentoo, irc.oftc.net #cola
Opinions expressed are my own, not those of Gentoo Linux or any
other entity I am associated with unless stated otherwise.

Mark Gary wrote:

Niether of you mentioned how sloppy and dangerous the rc-update and
etc-update sutff is. *Very* easy to hose your system, make it unbootable.

--

Fuck You

begin <75t4tb.644.ln@192.168.1.75>,
Bill Fuckin Gates <bill.gates@ms.com> writes:
I don't use etc-update so won't comment on it but please tell me how
I'm going to hose my system using rc-update? I've used it since my
first Gentoo install. rc-update is just an added convenience to the
Gentoo init system which is in a class of its own IMHO.

Bill Fuckin Gates wrote:

The rule about always being careful as 'root' still applies. I've never
had trouble with rc-update, but that's also about as simple as it can
be. I also *test* my configs before rebooting, thus avoiding unbootable
systems. I also don't mess with things I don't understand on my system
(fewer things every day).

As for etc-update, I can't say I use it much. Sure, I fire it up so it
can auto-merge the trivial changes, but then I manually go through every
updated config file that I remember tampering with. Those get a manual
update with 'vimdiff'. Finally I let etc-update force-merge the files I
know I haven't touched.

Now what *will* eventually hose your system is not keeping up with
updates in the config files. I learned that lesson the hard way ...
These days two commands automatically follow an 'emerge -Duv world',
namely 'revdep-rebuild' and 'etc-update'. That'll make sure all apps
use the latest libraries, and that the configs are updated.

--
PeKaJe

Kaufman's First Law of Party Physics: Population density is inversely
proportional to the square of the distance from the keg.

Peter Jensen wrote:

Actually im sure rc-update is pretty harmless... but etc-update is
extremely clumsy. Its not a good interface...not very user-friendly
when updating many files (which tend to build up after emerge worlds)

Maybe an email with the diff after an update would be nice...or a
good way to recover (I know the old config files are stored somewhere)
but I hosed my system at least twice to the point I couldnt backtrack
and undo all of the changes I had done to make my system break. I had to
completely reinstall.

I used sudo to perform the updates, and obviously I configured something
wrong..but gentoo is the only system Ive ever hosed...twice.

--

Fuck You

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 00:19:13 +0100, Roy Culley wrote:

I agree you have to do something really wrong to harm your system with
rc-update, it is not different that using any run-level manager in any
other system.

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 16:06:52 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:

Be warned it is not a easy distro to install, Flat. So do not come back
bitching that is sucks. If you need any help with anything just ask here
or in the gentoo group, I will be more than happy to help and the gentoo
forums and ng are great.

flatfish+++ threw some tea leaves on the floor
and this is what they wrote:

I don't think you will have any problems Flatfish, you're quite
meticulous.

A few notes:-
Get the latest 1.4 GRP for your processor and that will take a lot of
the work out of compiling apps.

When 1.4 boots, it tells you what the net-config util is called to get
you on the net straight away, it tells you how to start a ssh daemon so
you can do the install remotely (I'm doing that *right* now). It also
tells you where the on CD installation doc is and how to access it.

Every console has the same info, so you don't forget it.

What I do is first change the root password, setup networking, then
start the ssh server. I then go back to my desktop, and complete the
install from there. I always open up one window with the doc, and
another to do the actual install.


...................
tp@gronk:~$ ssh -l root jan
root@jan's password:

Welcome to the Gentoo Linux LiveCD!

The root password on this system has been auto-scrambled for security.

If any ethernet adapters were detected at boot, they should be auto-configured
if DHCP is available on your network. Type "net-setup eth0" to specify eth0 IP
address settings by hand.

/proc/config for kernel configuration.
To start an ssh server on this system, type "/etc/init.d/sshd start". If you
need to log in remotely as root, type "passwd root" to reset root's password to
a known value.

Stage tarball(s), distfiles and packages can be found in /mnt/cdrom/.

View installation instructions by typing "links /mnt/cdrom/install.html" or
"links http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml" for the latest
version from the gentoo.org Web site.

Please report any bugs you find to http://bugs.gentoo.org. Be sure to include
detailed information about how to reproduce the bug you are reporting. Thanks
for using Gentoo Linux!

cdimage root #


--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Gentoo-1.4_rc2
New Homepage: http://milkstone.d2.net.au/
** Linux Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **

On 2004-01-02, Bill Fuckin Gates <bill.gates@ms.com> wrote:
Obviously you're a troll, but for the record:

rc-update can't do anything dangerous to your system unless you do
something fucking stupid, like remove an important boot service.
rc-update just manages runlevels.

etc-update can only do something dangerous to your system if you do
something fucking stupid, like overwrite important configuration files
that you've modified in the past. This requires making intelligent
decisions and a little bit of reviewing and thinking.

--
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net #gentoo, irc.oftc.net #cola
Opinions expressed are my own, not those of Gentoo Linux or any
other entity I am associated with unless stated otherwise.

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 19:12:08 -0700, Freeride <freeride@maillinux.org> wrote:

I would never bitch about gentoo/debian/slack because I know what they are up
front and I realize they are not for the faint of heart.
I have the utmost of respect for distros like the above because I believe they
truly are the pure gnu/linux stuff.

Like I said, I have managed to get Slack and Debian working in the past, but I
will admit gentoo looks like a tough nut to crack.
I am printing the doc as we speak!

My main concerns are a dual boot config, not clobbering my Windows install and
getting alsa working along with the nice fonts that Mandrake and SuSE have
gotten down to a science.
If I can accomplish that, the rest is candy!
flatfish+++

Jon Portnoy wrote:

Nothing gets by you.

I shouldnt have said rc-update...I really only had a problem with
etc-update.

This is complete bullshit. Some of your files you HAVE to modify, is
that your definition of "overwriting important configuration files"?

Thats what they are there for...like /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf
Are you saying a user should never "overwrite" those?

The problem is that after you configure your system, etc-update overwrites
your configuration files.

Yes, I hope they do that when fixing etc-update. I look forward to the
makers of gentoo improving the weak parts of their distro. Other than that
It was pretty good...although I didnt get as many performance benefits as I
would have hoped for.

--

Fuck You

begin <oa15tb.e64.ln@192.168.1.75>,
Bill Fuckin Gates <bill.gates@ms.com> writes:
So why did you mention it as 'sloppy and dangerous'? It is an
extremely simple tool to use and does its job very well.

Well if you don't keep your system up to date then there can be a
large number of new config files. In probably 90+% cases it is just a
matter of copying the new file over the old one.

Never happened to me and I admin quite a large number of Gentoo
systems these days. I do save old config files before updating them
but I've never had to go back to an old version. It just takes a
little care when updating config files you have changed previously
whether via an editor or other method such as cups config.

I do find it hard to believe anything you say. You come across as an
attention seeking adolescent.

On 2004-01-03, Jon Portnoy <jdpNOSPAM@oppresses.us> wrote:
I can't see how anyone could muck up their system with etc-update
or rc-update, and even if someone did muck up their system, the
great thing is, all you would need to do is boot off the liveCD,
do a chroot etc, and fix the problem. Its dead easy.

--
Mark Gary

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:44:09 +1100, Terry <tjporter@gronk.porter.net> wrote:


Thanks for the encouragement Terry, I do sincerely appreciate it.
And like I said in another thread, if I screw things up and I suspect I will at
least the first time, I'm not judging this Linux distro because I know what I am
getting into.

I am looking forward to the challenge!!!

flatfish+++

Roy Culley wrote:

Be careful. Thats all that I am saying. Having programs magically update
was very appealing and one of the reasons I chose portage over the rpm
distros that I was/am used to. But at least with those distros, you upgrade
a program, and then configure it. That seems alot safer, to me, than
letting these programs update in the background and throwing the
corresponding config files in a heap waiting to be attended. Sure, a very
active and anal administrator would take care to handle these things right
away. I admit, I wasnt used to putting that mush effort into maintaining a
system...my bad, Ive never said otherwise.

First off, why would I lie? Secondly, why would it matter... Im reporting
my experience.... your approval isnt a requirement. Unless you feel
personally insulted about my few criticisms of gentoo, I think youre
overreacting.

So?

--

Fuck You

Mark Gary wrote:

Oh yeah...piece of cake. just do a chroot and find all of your old config
files from somewhere and hopefully put them all back where they were and
hope that whatever was broken now isnt. Actually I was able to bootsingle
user and restore alot of files from a week old backup of /etc...and got
a useable system, eventually fixing everything.

The second time I said fuck it and installed debian. Knock on wood, I
havent had any problems since.

--

Fuck You